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Belief in the Trinity required for salvation?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Wavy, Apr 22, 2006.

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  1. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    Yes they are!... I guess you do not understand something there is ONLY ONE GOD that exists in three persons, one essence .... therefore YES if you deny any part of the TRUE GOD then You REJECT ALL OF THE TRUE GOD
     
  2. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    Stop trying to get us to break the commandment of God to no condemnation please .... it is enough!

    It is not what we believe and we have explained what we believe severl times over, at this point it is MHO you are either deliberately being obtuse or out and out baiting ....

    Either way it is the Lord's Job to Judge not yours not ours and you will evoke from us that type of condemnation
     
  3. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

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    Fine, it is part of Divine Truth that the Ark of the Covenant was 2 1/2 cubits long (Ex.25:10). Is belief in that required for salvation?
     
  4. Wavy

    Wavy Regular Member

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    This is not proof or a true refutation, this is dogma. Seeing as how you are Catholic, this also limits the credibility of the argument. The major exception to this being a latter, false addition is the CC.

    And, more than just "and these three are one" was added to the text.

    But let's pretend that's not true. You said the "these three are one" at the end of 5:8 would include the first set of three as well. Not so. "And these three" would have referred back to only the Spirit/water/blood. Your position is not supported by the Greek.
     
  5. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

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    Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

    Go here:
    http://www.bible.org/netbible/index.htm

    Lookup 1 John 5:7, and read the notes on that verse (footnote #27).
     
  6. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    No that is part of Inspired Truth Given to Us by the Divine .... Not the Set of Divine Truths we know about God himself ....
     
  7. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    Wavy you do not even accept the Greek NT so why are arguing with me about it?
     
  8. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    The johanine argument has been used over the cenuries does not make it true either, just makes it an argument of theology ....
     
  9. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

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    Because my belief in the Trinity or lack thereof is irrelevent to the topic.

    Where have I denied the existence of the Trinity? What I have denied is the requirement of Trinitarianism for salvation. And I'm still waiting for the proof from Scripture to the contrary.
     
  10. Wavy

    Wavy Regular Member

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    Ad hominem. Who says I do not accept the Greek NT?
     
  11. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

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    And the Scripture that says "to reject Trinitarianism is to be condemned" is ... ?
     
  12. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    It has already been given where is any of yours proving it is not .... therefore making it totally relevant the question I ask .... considering you keep talking of modalism and ONENESS PENTECOSTALS, then one might assume that you are trying to defend their position and with good cause .... At least wavy when asked this question was nice enough to give a direct answer to the question at hand..... What is you Faith?
     
  13. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    that was not an ad hominem wavy, that was presenting to you the facts that most that do not accept the TRINITY and carry the Messianic icon are what?

    Now if you accept the NT then I would heavily suggest that you read the Letter to the HEBREWS .....
     
  14. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

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    There's no "obtuse" or "baiting" about it.

    It's a simple progression of logic.

    1. If one believes Trinitarianism is required for salvation, and

    2. Peter's confession mentions NOTHING of Trinitarianism, and

    3. Jesus says this confession is "blessed" and "the rock" of the church, then

    4. This "blessed" confession, this "rock" of the church MUST, by one's belief in #1, leave someone still condemned.

    It's quite simple.
     
  15. Wavy

    Wavy Regular Member

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    This was confusing, but are you saying most who hold a more Hebraic view of the scriptures don't accept the Greek NT? Was it a hasty generalization then?

    My understanding of the book of Hebrews is irrelevant to this topic also...
     
  16. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    Where in the Bible does it say it is Peter's confession that the Church is built upon? First you have to prove that.... that is was a confession and not upon Simon of Barjona, renamed Peter, in English Or in the Greek .... Stone, rock

    Mat 16:17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
    Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    G4074
    Πέτρος
    Petros
    pet'-ros
    Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock.( the corner stone)

    G4073
    πέτρα
    petra
    pet'-ra
    Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock. (the female, conotation hence the reason we call the the Church HER, and the WHOLE)
     
  17. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

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    Where? Which post was that Scripture presented in?

    I've already given you Paul's statement in Romans and Peter's confession.

    How does that make it relevent??
     
  18. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

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    It doesn't matter whehter it's the confession or Peter.

    It is this confession that leads into Jesus' statement. Now, would Jesus have really said what he did, if Peter's words still left him condemned?
     
  19. Melethiel

    Melethiel Miserere mei, Domine Supporter

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    Hm. Okay then - I'm just trying to understand your view here. I've noticed that you say that the Father and the Spirit are the same entity. How does Christ fit into this equation?
     
  20. Debi1967

    Debi1967 Proudly in love with Rushingwind62 Supporter

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    You mean after he is already an Apostle Already a Bishop and already Head of the Church? HUH? And you are saying this is what the whole of the Church is laid on when Christ said otherwise????????????
     
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