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Belief In The Resurrection Is Essential To Saving Faith

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Minister Monardo, Apr 17, 2021.

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  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The First Correction For Moving Forward
    Mark 16:
    9
    Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first
    to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.
    10 She went and told those who had been with Him,
    as they mourned and wept.
    11 And when they heard that He was alive and had been seen by her,
    they did not believe.
    12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked
    and went into the country.
    13 And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either.
    14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked
    their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those
    who had seen Him after He had risen
    .

    If The Dead Do Not Rise They Are Dead In Their Sins
    1 Corinthians 15:
    12
    Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do
    some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
    13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
    14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
    15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God
    that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.
    16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
    17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
    18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
    19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

    Believe In Your Heart, Confess With Your Mouth
    Romans 10:
    9
    that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your
    heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
    10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession
    is made unto salvation.
     
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  2. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Slow Of Heart To Believe
    Luke 24:
    25
    Then He said to them, O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all
    that the prophets have spoken!

    26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?
    27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the
    Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

    36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said
    to them, Peace to you.
    37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.
    38 And He said to them, Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts?
    39
    Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not
    have flesh and bones as you see I have.

    40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
    41 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them,
    Have you any food here?
    42 So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.
    43 And He took it and ate in their presence.
    44 Then He said to them, These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you,
    that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and
    the Psalms concerning Me.

    45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
    46 Then He said to them, Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for Christ to suffer
    and to rise from the dead on the third day.
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Sorry. No one is saved by doctrine.

    We are saved by an encounter with the living Christ.

    Doctrine is something the new convert learns as they are discipled, if even then. That is what catechism is for.

    No one is saved by doctrine.
     
  4. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As in the resurrected Christ. Salvation apart from the Resurrection isn't just doctrine, it is
    false doctrine.
     
  5. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    This post seems to contradict the preceding posts. Is any of this supposed to make sense?
     
  6. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    Yeah, no. None of these texts support the claim that faith in the resurrection is essential to salvation. At best they say, 1) the resurrection is essential to salvation, and 2) those who have faith and confess in the resurrected Lord will be saved. You are adding the assumption that only those who believe will be saved. It's a little bit of logic, but a big difference.

    Romans 10:9-10 is a promised guarantee, not a statement of exclusion.
     
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  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Again, no one is saved by doctrine.False or otherwise. We are only saved by an encounter with the living Christ.


    Acts 9:3-6
    As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
    5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
    “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
     
  8. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is in response to St. Steve's post.
    I am saying that Salvation apart from the Resurrection is a false doctrine.
    Just because the most famous preachers declare Salvation is attained at
    the Cross, the apostolic doctrine includes WHO He is, the Son of God, and
    this is proven by the Resurrection from the dead.
    Believing that Jesus Christ died for our sins AND that God raised Him from the dead.
    Isn't that what Paul said here. What confession is being made? The Son of God died for our sins,
    AND He is proven to be the Son of God by the Resurrection from the dead.
    Romans 1:4 declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness,
    by the resurrection from the dead.

    1 John 5:13
    These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God;
    that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
     
  9. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is Apostolic Doctrine and the Word of Truth. You keep referring to an encounter with the living
    Christ. So it is not a belief in the crucified Christ alone, but the Resurrected Christ. By citing Paul's
    experience, are saying Salvation comes by Christ appearing to someone, or can they be saved by
    hearing and believing the Gospel?
     
  10. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I didn't add anything, I posted scriptures. The apostles had to be reprimanded for not believing
    the report that Christ was Risen. It is not sufficient to believe Jesus died for sin, but also that
    He was raised to give eternal Life.
    Reconciliation is obtained at the Cross.

    Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death
    of His Son,
    much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
    His life giving authority proven by the Resurrection from the dead.

    Romans 1:4
    declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness,
    by the resurrection from the dead.
     
  11. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1 Corinthians 15:
    12
    Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that
    there is no resurrection of the dead?
    Here is the point of the thread. Many do not preach the Resurrection as an essential
    to Salvation, just "believe that He died for your sins, and you are assured going to heaven
    when you die". It is evident that the Resurrection was central to the 1st century Gospel.
    I will show further evidence in a moment.

    13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
    14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
    15
    Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that
    He raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
    16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
    17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

    Acts 4:
    1
    Now as they spoke to the people, the priests, the captain of the temple,
    and the Sadducees came upon them,
    2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus
    the resurrection from the dead.
     
  12. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    Fair enough. I agree that the resurrection was central, early on. And, I agree that it still should be today. When you read the sermons in Acts (I won't give bunch of passages, since we all probably know them), they are all centered on the resurrection. So, with that I agree.

    It is the unspoken claim that you are making that I am rejecting. The unspoken claim is: if one doesn't believe the resurrection, they cannot be saved. You cannot deduce that from these texts. All you can say is that if one believes and confesses, they will be saved. That is the most you can say.
     
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  13. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No sir. I have made no unspoken claim. You cannot quote Romans 10:9, 10, and then say that
    the Resurrection is not a part of what must be confessed and believed IN YOUR HEART.
    The claim that I am making is that it is an error to omit this Truth in the presenting of
    the Gospel.

    Believes and confesses what? How many times does Paul have to say this? How can
    a convert make this confession if the Resurrection is omitted from the Evangelist's Message?

    I wouldn't be stating this if I had not heard countless times over 4 decades at altar calls and
    sinners prayers that they must confess that Jesus died for sin and they would be saved. That
    is another Gospel. Maybe with discipleship they will come to the understanding of the essential
    nature of the Resurrection, but the preacher is also stating that "if you die on the way home
    tonight, you will go straight to heaven". I repeat, that is another Gospel.
     
  14. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    Yes, I agree. It is a severe error to omit the truth of the resurrection. There's no faith without it.

    You'll have to forgive me @Minister Monardo. Any time I see a thread in the "controversial" section, I like to raise all the points that can be made. :)
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Sure, that is who Christ is, but the person being saved has little to no concept of doctrine, correct or otherwise. Will we now argue about which denomination has the doctrine that saves? That's ridiculous in my view.

    Can a person be saved that doesn't understand the deity of Christ, or the virgin birth, or the Trinity, or the Body of Christ? Where do you draw the line? None of that matters in the view of the person coming to salvation. Only an encounter with Christ.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    No one is saved by a "doctrinally correct" gospel presentation either.

    This parody might clarify my point.
    "Oops, sorry. I forgot to mention the resurrection. You aren't really saved. Let's try this again. Hopefully I won't forget anything this time."
     
  17. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You will get no argument from me. I am just quoting Paul saying that the confession of Faith
    includes believing in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. This Truth should be presented
    in the Gospel. I am not making up a parody. I am stating that if modern Evangelism has come to omit
    this original apostolic message, it should be restored. I am not sure how you present the Gospel
    to an unbeliever, but Romans 10:9, 10 would be appropriate. If you feel that is a doctrine of some
    denomination, I can only assume you have another way. John 3:16 for example.
    Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He died for our sin by the Will of His Father, who raised Him from
    the dead. Too much doctrine?
    They certainly cannot be saved by a false doctrine. Does Salvation involve Faith? Faith In what?
    Paul says without the Resurrection your Faith is vain.

     
  18. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    The gospel says, "If you confess Christ is Lord, and believe he was raised, you will be saved." That is a statement of guarantee, not exclusion.

    Imagine I own a concert venue, and sell tickets to get in the concert. I say, "If you have a ticket, you will get in." What does that entail? It only entails that those who have tickets get in. What it does not entail is that those without tickets will not get in. I am the owner. I can walk out, eat the expense myself, and say to everyone waiting for a ticket, "Y'all can come in, too."

    I am not saying that all will be saved. What I am saying is your proof text does not entail those who don't confess and believe won't be saved. That is the mystery that only God knows. And the sooner we can cutoff any temptations towards condemnation, the better.

    Here's another way to look at it:
    1. The resurrected Christ is necessary for salvation.
    2. Faith in the resurrected Christ is sufficient for salvation.

    The only necessary is Christ, the rest is really up to God.
     
  19. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You keep making mention of a proof text. Yours is a concert ticket analogy. As for condemnation,
    that is up to Christ Himself, who has been given all authority for Judgment. The topic of the
    thread is that the Gospel Message of the founding apostles included the Resurrection, and modern
    evangelism should do the same. You express concerns that the OP is raising temptations
    toward condemnation. That is only true if you are concerned with whether or not the NT condemns
    false teaching. If you do not believe that the omission of the Resurrection constitutes
    the preaching of another Gospel, duly noted. All of the scriptures quoted support the inclusion, and
    you have agreed in principle more than once. All parody and analogy aside, the Gospel Message
    should include the Resurrection, for this is cited by the apostles as proof that Jesus is who
    He claimed to be. Is that not essential?
     
  20. public hermit

    public hermit social troglodyte Supporter

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    Yes, I agree. The resurrected Christ is necessary for salvation and it is essential that we proclaim his resurrection in word and deed. Glory be to God.
     
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