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Being saved while believing in a non-physical resurrection?

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by JohnClay, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. JohnClay

    JohnClay Newbie Supporter

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    A female Anglican priest I like to talk to believes that the resurrection of Jesus wasn't necessarily physical. I'm not sure of the technical term. If a person is overwise a Christian (e.g. they put Jesus first and are sorry for their sins) but just doesn't believe that Jesus rose physically, are they saved? They could believe that Jesus appeared in hallucinations - or my theory, that it involved mistaken identity and maybe legends/rumours. Or it was intended to be symbolic/parables.
     
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  2. Vicky gould

    Vicky gould Shekinah Supporter

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    There is no doubt His resurrected body. Was physically resurrected but the glorified body was different as well. It could pass through solid objects, it could eat food but we are not given any insight in what took place in the transformation. Hope thi s helps
     
  3. ~Zao~

    ~Zao~ Wisdom’s child Supporter

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    16For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still inyour sins.
     
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  4. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    Christian doctrines are interpretations of scripture but it is well to know that the gospels themselves are "interpretative narratives" written decades after the fact by second or third generation believers. My own understanding is that in the days and weeks following the crucifixion, the apostles and disciples returned to Galilee in shock and disbelief at what had happened. However, it gradually dawned on them that, if the life and teachings of Jesus were to have any lasting impact, it could only happen by and through them. That is equally true of us today. They and we are the true resurrection. I believe that the resurrection stories in the gospels are attempts to express this idea as an allegory.
     
  5. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    She denies the resurrection of Christ?

    1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

    Whether one denies that Jesus was born of a virgin as God manifest in the flesh, or denies that the Lord physically rose again from the dead, they are not confessing the testimony of the Spirit of God that Christ has come in the flesh.

    John 2:18-21 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body."

    Scripture is clear regarding Christ's resurrection.
     
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  6. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    Luke 24:38-39 "And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

    Jesus himself even said that he wasn't a spirit, but flesh and bone. That person that believes Christ didn't physically rise from the dead is no better than a Jehovah's False Witness.
     
  7. dailyprayerwarrior

    dailyprayerwarrior Member

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  8. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    That idea is just a product of modernism and rationalism. Why believe in a recent "expression of the faith"?
     
  9. HardHead

    HardHead Active Member Supporter

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    This reference is a good point.

    Even though His body was changed due to the Resurrection, its pretty clear that this was a physical Resurrection. (1 Corinthians 15:54-58)

    For me, this does not mean that it was not spiritual as well as physical, but it was certainly physical.

    Both make sense to me since a living human is the union of body and soul. On death these are separated. To raise people from the dead into life, this union presumably needs to be re-established.
     
  10. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    We're taught very strongly not to deny the resurrection. In fact the heathen of Jesus' time denied the resurrection. See Luke 20:27 & Luke 20:35-36

    Which makes it sound like denying the resurrection is the same as denying God.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  11. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    This is the difficulty that arises when we mix Jewish thinking with Greek philosophy.
    Resurrection in the Jewish idea and as is promised in the Bible is always a complete ressurection of the person. The idea that the spiritual human exists apart from a body (and yes Paul does refer to a Spiritual Body), is from Greek pagan philosophy, probably entered into the Church from Augustine or the like.
    If Jesus was not ressurected as a complete man, then His resurrection was not complete, and so His death is meaningless, "and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied." 1 Corinthians 15
     
  12. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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  13. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Jesus had a changed body that could fly up into the clouds
    ....so.......I'm not going to argue with them.
     
  14. Anguspure

    Anguspure Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ Supporter

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    The body also sat on the beach and ate fish, and could be touched, and could walk and talk in this world as a man. The body that Christ has is how we were created to be, and how we will be when we also receive our resurrection from the dead.
     
  15. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sounds to me like she's not suited to be a priest....the bible is very clear on this one.
     
  16. HehasRisen

    HehasRisen Faith as small as a mustard seed

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    I would attribute that to a lack of faith more than anything.

    If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.


    Romans 10:9-10

    If we believe Jesus is the Son of God, and that God can do all things, then it'd be easy to believe He was risen from the dead.
     
  17. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    Does any intelligent person believe such easily debunked ideas like mass hallucinations, mistaken identity?
    Hallucinations are not shared they are personal delusions, so how does a room full of people share the same illusion that Jesus has appeared among them?
    Mistaken identity? If it was the wrong tomb why didn't the authorities make that clear when the early Christians began to be a nusiance>
    Wrong person ditto.
    They lied! An even dafter idea, why should they lie, what did they gain. Rejection by the wider community, loss of status, not a big deal for fisherman/tax collectors but a big deal for Saul and eventually they died by being crucified for what they knew to be a lie or the truth.

    It is strange how people cling to unprovable reason not to believe when the historical evidence shows what they will not belief is actually factual.
     
  18. JohnClay

    JohnClay Newbie Supporter

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    About mistaken identity -
    I'm talking about 1 Corinthians 15:6: "after that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep."

    That doesn't mention the time, place, specifics, names, etc. Here is an example of an event that is far better documented - involving thousands of people:
    Seeing/meeting Jesus in modern times

    I guess after people see the photo though they'd dismiss it since it doesn't "look" like Jesus. We don't know whether that sighting in 1 Cor 15:6 also looked like Jesus is meant to look.
     
  19. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    There was no need for the time, place or date. Paul was stating that many people had seen the risen Jesus and that those who wanted to challenge it could do so by contacting eyewitnesses.

    A better question would be 'How did they know that this person was Jesus?'
     
  20. JohnClay

    JohnClay Newbie Supporter

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    How would they be able to contact the eyewitnesses if there is no mention of when or where it was - the only detail was that there were "over five hundred" and some were dead.

    Like the example here:
    Seeing/meeting Jesus in modern times
    they just believed it was Jesus
     
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