SummerMadness

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Money doesn't solve everything; that was the whole point of a coon or house entity.

You can be well off, and even well-to-do - and you can still be a slave. If people who look like you are being killed in the streets by law enforcement, and the people apologize for it, then it doesn't matter what your "status" is - you are still trash. Emotionalism is not required to see what is right and wrong.

This whole "narrative" thing is BS; why does everyone else in the world know what blacks go through except Americans? And, why do Americans always say, "let's have a conversation" but when one is evolved from an organic place the conclusion is always about a "narrative being written"? Stop playing games with words and pay attention to what your own citizens are experiencing, and have been experiencing.

The people who opposed civil rights 60 years ago have taught their children the same opposition, who have taught their children how to continue the same things their parents did. Trying to imply what Americans do to Americans is nothing but a narrative is to be painfully and insultingly ignorant of what your own countrymen have been trying to tell you.

Every time a black person tells us what the problem is, we call them liars. It is always their fault. Now our ignorance is being used against us to destabilize the nation, and all we can do is allow it - because we would rather let this nation burn to the ground than treat a certain group of citizens as equal and human. If Blacks had a place in the world, someone would be looking out for them instead of them having to march for what should be blatant human right.
There were successful people in the 1920s, that proves that there was no racism throughout the 20 century. I think people ignore that people can be successful in spite of racism. Racism doesn’t halt everyone, but it is still an impediment within the system. But I don’t expect these same people to read anything on the subject, they believe they can dictate what is racist and nor racist even if the data doesn’t support their argument.
 
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Radagast

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Yet another statement that shows you didn’t read the article

I read the article; I just didn't agree with it.

My knowledge of the topic comes from more technical and more reliable sources.
 
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SummerMadness

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I read the article; I just didn't agree with it.

My knowledge of the topic comes from more technical and more reliable sources.
You’re arguing from ignorance because the problem with the algorithm is not the reason you stated. Not all algorithms and models are the same, so claiming you know a particular model doesn’t mean they used that particular model. Again, it’s an argument from ignorance only exacerbated by ignoring the article because you don’t like the result or reasoning.
 
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Hank77

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Chesterton

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Money doesn't solve everything; that was the whole point of a coon or house entity.
I wasn't talking about money necessarily. I'm talking about accomplishments, and accomplishments in so many varied fields it shows that there is equal opportunity for all, so yes, blacks do belong here.
You can be well off, and even well-to-do - and you can still be a slave. If people who look like you are being killed in the streets by law enforcement, and the people apologize for it, then it doesn't matter what your "status" is - you are still trash. Emotionalism is not required to see what is right and wrong.

This whole "narrative" thing is BS; why does everyone else in the world know what blacks go through except Americans? And, why do Americans always say, "let's have a conversation" but when one is evolved from an organic place the conclusion is always about a "narrative being written"? Stop playing games with words and pay attention to what your own citizens are experiencing, and have been experiencing.

The people who opposed civil rights 60 years ago have taught their children the same opposition, who have taught their children how to continue the same things their parents did. Trying to imply what Americans do to Americans is nothing but a narrative is to be painfully and insultingly ignorant of what your own countrymen have been trying to tell you.

Every time a black person tells us what the problem is, we call them liars. It is always their fault. Now our ignorance is being used against us to destabilize the nation, and all we can do is allow it - because we would rather let this nation burn to the ground than treat a certain group of citizens as equal and human. If Blacks had a place in the world, someone would be looking out for them instead of them having to march for what should be blatant human right.
It is a narrative, a story, a myth. You don't speak for all black people. Maybe you live in the echo chamber of TV, Hollywood and internet, but black folks I know IRL don't think like you, they don't agree with you. Black intellectuals and academics who seriously and honestly look into the issue don't agree with you.
There were successful people in the 1920s, that proves that there was no racism throughout the 20 century.
Yes, that's exactly what I didn't say.
I think people ignore that people can be successful in spite of racism. Racism doesn’t halt everyone, but it is still an impediment within the system. But I don’t expect these same people to read anything on the subject, they believe they can dictate what is racist and nor racist even if the data doesn’t support their argument.
If interested you can watch the whole video, or just the first 4:30 where he explains the problems with the data. (Video contains one instance of profanity.)

 
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Kaon

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I wasn't talking about money necessarily. I'm talking about accomplishments, and accomplishments in so many varied fields it shows that there is equal opportunity for all, so yes, blacks do belong here.

It is a narrative, a story, a myth. You don't speak for all black people. Maybe you live in the echo chamber of TV, Hollywood and internet, but black folks I know IRL don't think like you, they don't agree with you. Black intellectuals and academics who seriously and honestly look into the issue don't agree with you.

Enjoy your afternoon.
 
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SummerMadness

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It is a narrative, a story, a myth. You don't speak for all black people. Maybe you live in the echo chamber of TV, Hollywood and internet, but black folks I know IRL don't think like you, they don't agree with you. Black intellectuals and academics who seriously and honestly look into the issue don't agree with you.
Black conservatives are not the only "intellectuals." There is a far larger cohort of researchers and academics who have delved deeper into these topics and have a different opinion. The "black folks [you] know IRL" appear to not to be representative of the broader population. Claiming that those who differ from conservatives are not intellectual, serious or honest is a load of garbage.

Yes, that's exactly what I didn't say.
Pointing to successful people now and arguing that there can't be racism now if they exist is exactly what you're saying. Successful black person = no racism.

If interested you can watch the whole video, or just the first 4:30 where he explains the problems with the data. (Video contains one instance of profanity.)

The conceptual problem actually comes from Mr. Hughes. He is making an argument that there are lurking variables in studies; moreover, he misstates how bias is uncovered and then attacks the straw man. It's understandable that he makes these logical missteps since he doesn't have a statistics background, but perhaps he needs to go beyond an intro to stats course before he argues there is something wrong with the multiple studies that uncover racial bias.
 
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FireDragon76

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FireDragon76

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The thing about this "white supremacy" it has been built up into a specter. White people of today do not tolerate it. Yes, there are fringe groups, but they are on the fringe because they are not accepted by main stream society.

The perception of some black people (mostly pundits, academics, and some social influencers) seems to be that under the skin of every white person is a closet klansman. And that's just absurd. Sure, as I said, white people do have biases, but so does every other group of people. Biases are part of the human condition, and it takes discipline and mindfulness to overcome them.
 
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Chesterton

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Black conservatives are not the only "intellectuals." There is a far larger cohort of researchers and academics who have delved deeper into these topics and have a different opinion. The "black folks [you] know IRL" appear to not to be representative of the broader population. Claiming that those who differ from conservatives are not intellectual, serious or honest is a load of garbage.

Pointing to successful people now and arguing that there can't be racism now if they exist is exactly what you're saying. Successful black person = no racism.
I've complained about this before - you respond to things I don't say more than things I do say. But as to the reason black folks I know don't appear to be representative of the broader population, it's because they're so normal. Out of 1,000,000 safe plane landings, the media only talks about the ones that crash. A black guy who gets up and goes to work and mows his lawn and pays his taxes and is reasonably happy is much less interesting, much less romantic, than a black guy looting a Walmart for some perceived heroic cause.
The conceptual problem actually comes from Mr. Hughes. He is making an argument that there are lurking variables in studies; moreover, he misstates how bias is uncovered and then attacks the straw man. It's understandable that he makes these logical missteps since he doesn't have a statistics background, but perhaps he needs to go beyond an intro to stats course before he argues there is something wrong with the multiple studies that uncover racial bias.
Yes there are unaccounted for variables. He explains a few very well. No one needs a statistics education to understand them. It's common sense.
 
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Chesterton

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What exactly is meant by this so-called "white supremacy"? Genuine klansmen and white nationalists are a very small part of the US population, and most people, white or black, rightly recognize that ideology as wrong.

People with biases against blacks? That's probably not that uncommon. But racial bias is not unique to white people.

The perception of some black people (mostly pundits, academics, and some social influencers) seems to be that under the skin of every white person is a closet klansman. And that's just absurd. Sure, as I said, white people do have biases, but so does every other group of people. Biases are part of the human condition, and it takes discipline and mindfulness to overcome them.
Who are you, and what did you do with FireDragon after you hacked his account? We just want to know that he's safe.

:p
 
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FireDragon76

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Who are you, and what did you do with FireDragon after you hacked his account? We just want to know that he's safe.

:p

I'm still here.

I have no doubt that biases that harm black people are a real thing. However viral anecdotes and decontextualized statistics don't justify blind outrage against entire groups of people (like police officers) or society in general.
 
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