• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

"BEHOLD! YOUR HOUSE IS LEFT TO YE DESOLATE/A WILDERNESS!"

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    I hear this brought up many times by eschatologists discussing end times.
    What interest me is that Mark never mentions this in his Gospel.

    So let's look at this and compare it to both Revelation and OT Prophecies.

    Matthew 23
    37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!.............
    38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>

    Luke 13:
    34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!.........
    35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>,

    2048. eremos of uncertain affinity;
    lonesome, i.e. (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, 5561 being implied):--desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.
    G2048 ἔρημος (erēmos), occurs 50 times in 50 verses.

    1st time used in NT

    Matthew 3:1
    In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness<2048> of Judea....

    It is used in 3 verses of Revelation concerning the 2 Woman

    Revelation 12:
    6 Then the Woman fled into the wilderness<2048>, where She has a place prepared by God,
    that they should feed Her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
    14 But the Woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that She might fly into the wilderness<2048> to Her place,
    where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence/face of the Serpent.

    John is carried away in spirit and sees this Woman:

    Revelation 17:3
    So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness<2048>.
    And I saw a Woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


    Revelation 17:1
    And there came one of the seven Messenger that had the seven bowls, and spake with me, saying, "Come hither!
    I will show thee the judgment of the Great Harlot that sitteth upon many waters;


    to be continued......
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    This lexicon concordance site let's you look where exact forms of Greek words are used. I looked for the one used in Revelation, and all 3 verses use the exact same form of G2048,

    3 of those times is when Jesus is led into the wilderness to be tried by the Devil.

    Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
    ἔρημον — 15x

    Matthew 4 mentions the Devil, holy City and pinnacle of the Temple and shown the kingdoms of the world
    Mark 1 only mentions Jesus being in the wilderness 40 days tried by the Satan.
    Luke 4 mentions tried by the Devil, the Temple, Jerusalem and kingdoms of the world.

    Matthew 4:
    1 Then Jesus was led up into the wilderness by the Spirit to be tempted by the Devil.
    5 Then the Devil takes Him to the holy City and sets Him upon the pinnacle of the Temple
    8 Again the Devil takes Him to a mountain exceedingly high and shows to Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

    Mark 1
    12 And immediately the Spirit drives Him out into the wilderness.
    13 And He was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by the Satan. And He was with the wild animals, and the angels were ministering to Him.

    Luke 4:
    1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 being tempted forty days by the Devil. And He ate nothing in those days, and they having ended, He was hungry.
    5 And having led Him up, he showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
    9 And he led Him to Jerusalem and set Him upon the pinnacle of the Temple, and said to Him,

    That form of g2048 in those other verses is used in only 1 verse outside of Revelation and the Gospels, when Paul is accused of being an Egyptian rebel leader of assassins.

    Acts 21:
    37 Then as Paul was about to be led into the barracks, he said to the commander, “May I speak to you?” He replied, “Can you speak Greek?
    38 “Are you not the Egyptian who some time ago stirred up a rebellion and led the four thousand assassins out into the wilderness?



    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  3. JohnC2

    JohnC2 Active Member

    250
    +211
    Christian
    Married
    Not the same woman. Mystery Babylon - the great Harlot which rides the Beast - was never signified in the Bible by the sun, moon, and 12 stars.....

    We see 2 “women” set against each other in the Bible.. Israel and Babylon.

    Ref Isaiah 47 “The daughter of Babylon”....

    “Mystery Babylon” refers to the specific system of Babylonian civil law, civil justice, and state religion employed as an opiate to the masses. It’s purpose is to make the rule of a powerful military empire more palatable to it’s citizens.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Matthew 23
    37 - “O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>,.......
    38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>
    Luke 13:
    34 - “O Jerusalem<2419>, Jerusalem<2419>,
    35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>,

    There are 2 different Greek words for Jerusalem in the NT.

    #G2419 is used 1 each in Matt and Mark, 27 verses in Luke, none in John.
    Rest in Acts, Epistles and 3 verses

    Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

    2419. Hierousalem hee-er-oo-sal-ame' of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierusalem (i.e. Jerushalem), the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2414.
    G2419 matches the Greek (Ierousalēm),
    which occurs 83 times in 80 verses

    26 chapters Luke-----27 verses
    25 chapters Acts--------40 verses
    2 chapters Revelation--- 3 verses
    1 chapter Romans-------4 verses
    1 chapter Galatians----- 2 verses
    1 chapter Matthew---- 1 verses
    1 chapter Mark---------1 verses
    1 chapter 1 Corin--------1 verse
    1 chapter Hebrews------ 1 verse
    0 chapters for John--- 0

    Revelation 3:12
    “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem<2419>, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
    Revelation 21:

    2 Then I, John,[fn] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem<2419>, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy[fn] Jerusalem<2419>, descending out of heaven from God,

    The other greek word is #2414

    2414. Hierosoluma of Hebrew origin (3389); Hierosolyma (i.e. Jerushalaim}, the capitol of Palestine:--Jerusalem. Compare 2419.
    G2414 matches the Greek (Hierosolyma), which occurs 59 times in 59 verses

    10 chapters in Acts-------- 18 verses
    1, 8, 11, 13, 18, 20, 21, 25, 26, 28,
    8 chapters in Matt------- 12 verses
    2, 3, 4, 5, 15, 16, 20, 21
    7 chapters in John------- 12 verses
    1, 2, 4, 5, 10, 11,12
    5 chapters in Mark------- 9 verses
    3, 7, 10, 11, 15
    4 chapters in Luke-------- 5 verses
    2, 18,19,23
    2 chapters in Galatians----- 3 verses
    1 and 2

    1st time used

    Matthew 2:1
    Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem<2414>,


    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,756
    Christian
    Married


    Mat 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
    Mat 2:10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
    Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
    Mat 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
    Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
    Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
    Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.


    Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
    Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Revelation 17:3
    So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness<2048>.
    And I saw a Woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    And a similar event in Ezekiel where he visions Jerusalem and sees the "image of jealousy"

    Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
    Ezekiel and John taken by spirit into wilderness...

    Ezekiel 8:3
    He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem,
    to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy. [Revelation 17:3]

    Jesus is shown being led up/taken by the spirit into the wilderness where he is tried by the Devil/Satan and also shown the holy City, Jerusalem:

    Matthew 4:
    1Then Jesus was led up into the wilderness by the Spirit to be tempted by the Devil.
    5 Then the Devil takes Him to the holy City and sets Him upon the pinnacle of the Temple

    Mark 1
    12 And immediately the Spirit drives Him out into the wilderness.
    13 And He was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by the Satan. And He was with the wild animals, and the angels were ministering to Him.

    Luke 4:
    1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 being tempted forty days by the Devil. And He ate nothing in those days, and they having ended, He was hungry.
    9 And he led Him to Jerusalem and set Him upon the pinnacle of the Temple, and said to Him,

    Devil and Satan mentioned together in only 2 verses of the Bible:

    Revelation 12:9
    So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;
    he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    Revelation 20:2
    He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

    Mark mentions "Satan"....

    Mark 1:13
    And He was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by the Satan. And He was with the wild animals, and the angels were ministering to Him.

    Matthew and Luke mention the "Devil", and both holy City and Jerusalem are mentioned:

    Matthew 4:5
    Then the Devil takes Him to the holy City and sets Him upon the pinnacle of the Temple
    Luke 4:9
    And he led Him to Jerusalem and set Him upon the pinnacle of the Temple, and said to Him,

    The phrase "holy city" occurs in only 5 verses in the OT and 6 verses in the NT

    "holy city" occurs 11 times in 11 verses in the NASB.

    1st time in OT:

    Nehemiah 11:1
    Now the leaders of the people lived in Jerusalem, but the rest of the people cast lots to bring one out of ten to live in Jerusalem, the holy City, while nine-tenths remained in the other cities.

    4 of those times in Revelation

    However, Relation 11:1-2 shows both the "holy City" and a "Temple/Sanctuary"

    Revelation 11:
    1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
    2 and the Court/fold[water lavar/Altar of Sacrifice], outside of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations/gentiles
    and the holy City they shall be treading/pathsousin <3961> (5692) 42 months months.

    Luke appears to be the only Gospel writer to specifically mention Jerusalem being trampled down [which did occur in 70ad as described by Josephus].

    Luke 21:24
    and they will
    fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations;
    and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

    Luke 19:
    41 And as He nears<1448>, beholding the City, and He laments<2799> on Her,

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    The Destruction Of JERUSALEM
    An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF
    CHRISTIANITY:

    History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;......................

    ,
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Good scriptures...

    So we can agree a lot of events shown in Revelation occurred in the 1st century before 70ad, correct?
    Including these 3 events:

    The birth of Jesus:


    Luke 2:7
    and she gave birth to her Firstborn, a Son.
    She wrapped Him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them.[Revelation 12:5?]
    Revelation 12:5
    And she brought forth a Son, a male, Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in rod/staff, iron.

    Jesus being caught up in a cloud in Acts 1:


    John 1:1
    In beginning was the Word and the Word was near/toward/proV <4314> the GOD and God was the Word.
    John 17:11
    And not still I-am in the world, and these in the world are,
    and I toward/proV <4314> Thee am coming

    Acts 1:9
    Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched,
    He was taken up,
    and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
    Revelation 12:5
    And is caught-away Her Child toward<4314>God
    and toward His throne. [John 7:11]

    Then Revelation 1 shows Jesus after His ascension to Heaven:


    John 19:30
    So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!"
    And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

    Revelation 1:18
    and the living One! And I became dead and behold!
    I AM living into the ages of the ages.
    And I AM having the keys of the Hades and of the Death.

    Daniel 7:13
    Perceiving I was in VISIONS of the night and behold!
    With clouds of the heavens as son of a mortal/0606 'enash arriving he was, and unto ancient/06268 `attiyq of the days He reached, and before HIM they bring near Him


    .

     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    There is also this verse I just found concerning Mountain and land of Israel:

    Ezekiel 40:2
    In the visions of God He took me into the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain; on it toward the south was something like the structure of a city.

    The transfiguration of Jesus took place on a high mountain

    Mar 9:2
    Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up on a high mountain apart by themselves; and He was transfigured before them.

    Jesus is shown being taken up to an exceedingly high mountain:

    Matthew 4:8
    Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

    Luke 4:5
    Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him[fn] all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.



    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    It is also mentioned in Luke.

    Matthew 23
    37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!.............
    38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>

    Luke 13:
    34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!.........
    35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>,

    3624. oikos oy'-kos of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple
    G3624 matches the Greek οἶκος (oikos), occurs 114 times in 106 verses

    Matthew 23:38 Commentaries: biblehub

    Benson Commentary
    Matthew 23:38-39. Behold, your house — The temple, which is now your house, not God’s; is left unto you desolate — Forsaken of God and his Christ, and sentenced to utter destruction. Our Lord spake this as he was going out of it for the last time.

    Expositor's Greek Testament
    Matthew 23:38. ἰδοὺ, etc., solemn, sorrowful abandonment of the city to its fate.—ἀφίεται ὑμῖν, spoken to the inhabitants of Israel.—ὁ οἶκος ὑ., your house, i.e., the city, not the temple; the people are conceived of as one family.—ἔρημος, wanting in [129] [130], and omitted by W.H[131], is not necessary to the sense. The sentence is, indeed, more impressive without it: “Behold your house is abandoned to your care: those who would have saved you giving up further effort”. What will happen left to be imagined; just what ἔρημος expresses—desolation.

    [129] Codex Vaticanus (sæc. iv.), published in photographic facsimile in 1889 under the care of the Abbate Cozza-Luzi.

    [130] Codex Regius--eighth century, represents an ancient text, and is often in agreement with א and B.

    [131] Westcott and Hort.
    Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
    38. your house] i. e. Jerusalem, rather than the Temple.

    desolate] Omitted in the Vatican Codex, but too strongly supported to be removed from the text.

    Bengel's Gnomen
    Matthew 23:38. Ἰδοὺ, ἀφίεται, Behold [your house] is left) The present tense twice expressed.[1020] He uttered these words as He was going out of the Temple. See ch. Matthew 24:1, and cf. John 12:36.—Ὁ ΟἾΚΟς ὙΜῶΝ, your house) which is otherwise called the house of the Lord. Thus, in Exodus 32:7, God says to Moses, thy people.[1021]—ἔρημος, desolate, or desert) sc. as being left by the Messiah.[1022] Even after His ascension, Christ employed the Temple in a remarkable manner with His disciples. But with regard to Judaism, the Temple now ceased to be what it had been, and for this reason was at length destroyed; see Matthew 23:36. The word ἜΡΗΜΟς is often employed with a particular reference.[1023] Thus the Forum is said to be ἜΡΗΜΟΝ, when no judicial proceedings are being carried on in it.

    [1020] This refers to ἀποστέλλω in Matthew 23:34.—(I. B.)

    [1021] Though on other occasions God said of them, “My people.”—ED.

    [1022] For when the Messiah is absent, there is nothing that is not desolate and deserted.—V. g.

    [1023] i.e. To denote the absence of that which constituted the characteristic or excellence of the object under consideration.—(I. B.)Pulpit CommentaryVerse 38. - Your house. The temple or Jerusalem, no longer God's habitation. This betokens not only Christ's solemn departure from the sacred precincts; but the withdrawal of God's Spirit from the Jewish Church and nation. Unto you. Henceforward ye shall have it all to yourselves; my Father and I forsake it; we give it up altogether to you. Desolate. The word is omitted by some few uncials, but retained by א, C, D, etc., most cursives, the Vulgate, etc. The protecting wing is withdrawn, the Divine presence removed, and the house is indeed deserted (ἔρημος); (comp. Psalm 59:25; Jeremiah 12:7).

    Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

    Behold your house is left unto you desolate. Signifying that the city in which they dwelt, where they had their ceiled houses, and stately palaces, would, in a little time, within the space of forty years, be destroyed, and become a desert; and the temple, formerly the house of God, but now only their's, and in which they trusted, would be abandoned by God, he would grant his presence no more in it; and the Messiah, the proprietor of it, and who was now in it, would then take his leave of it, and never more return to it; and that also should share the same fate as the city, and at the same time. Our Lord seems to have in view those passages in Jeremiah 12:7 and which the Jewish (o) writers understood of the temple. The author of the apocryphal the second book of Esdras has much such an expression as this:
    "Thus saith the Almighty Lord, Your house is desolate, I will cast you out as the wind doth stubble.'' (2 Esdras 1:33).
     
  10. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

    +358
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    Commentaries are strictly opinions. All in the body are of equal stature before the Lord. I don't agree with those expositors. Just because a person has a PHD or whatever behind their name doesn't make them right. Ok to see what others think, but that is about it.

    We could do what goes on in many court cases and have a "battle of the experts" all week long, but it wouldn't change things much.

    If you are trying to sell your position, I am not buying.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    So what is your view of "house" in those verses? The 70ad Olivet Discourse follows right after Matthew 23:

    Matthew 23
    37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!.............
    38 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>

    Luke 13:
    34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!.........
    35 Behold! the House of ye is being left desolate/a wilderness<2048>,

    Jesus was from the Tribe of Judah and that Tribe joined with Benjamin and more significantly the priestly Tribe of Levi.
    They probably don't view 1st century Jerusalem and Temple in Revelation as I do.

    Matthew 21:
    12 Then Jesus went into the Temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves.
    13 And He said to them, “It is written, My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a den of thieves.' ”[Isaiah 56:7]


    John 2:
    14 and He found in the Temple those selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money-changers sitting,
    15 and having made a whip<5416> of small cords, He put all forth out of the Temple, also the sheep, and the oxen;

    and of the money-changers he poured out the coins, and the tables he overthrew,
    [Nahum 3:2/Reve 18:11-13]

    Sheep and oxen are also mentioned in Revelation 18:13. The Romans had to destroy the City in order to get to the Temple back in 70ad

    The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

    Revelation 18:
    11 And the Merchants<1713> of the earth are lamenting<2799> and mourning<3996> over Her,
    that their cargo<1117> no one is buying anymore.
    12 Cargo of gold and silver, and precious stone and pearl and fine linen and purple, [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:16]
    and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood and brass and iron and marble 13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat
    and beasts and sheep and of horses and of chariots and of bodies and souls of men.

    19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying,
    "Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
    for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.

    [​IMG]







     
  12. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

    +358
    United States
    Protestant
    Married
    I don't assume that the Olivet discourse encompasses only 70AD. The part pertaining to the destruction of the Temple is in Matthew 24:2, and that wasn't delivered on the Mount of Olives, but just before.

    The Olivet discourse is an answer to the questions posed by the disciples in Matthew 23:3

    Matthew 24:3 (NKJV) Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

    So the Olivet discourse primarily is an answer to those questions. So the internal evidence does not allow for a 70AD interpretation.
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Jesus uses a rather unique word that is only used in Matthew 24 of the Gospels, "parousia".

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

    Matthew 24:3
    Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us! when shall these be being?
    and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end<4930> of the Age?

    2 Thessalonians 2:
    1 - And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the parousia <3952> of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him,
    8 - and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his parousia<3952>,

    James also uses that word to the Christian Israelites saying it was "nigh"


    James 5:8
    be ye patient!, also stand-fast the hearts of ye,
    that the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared/hggiken <1448> (5758);

    Peter, also speaking to the 1st century Christian Israelites also said the end was nigh:

    1 Peter 4:7

    Of all-things yet the End<5056> is nigh<1448>
    be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

    Matthew 24:3
    Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us! when shall these be being?
    and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end<5055> 4930> of the Age?

    Revelation 1:3
    Blessed/happy the one reading and the ones hearing the words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been written/gegrammena <1125> (5772),
    That the Time/Season is nigh<1451>.
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,098
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Interesting
     
Loading...