Behold, I come as a thief!

[Marilyn C]

The timing of the event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5 on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".

Hi BAberean,

The Day of the Lord - `Day` Gk. word `hemera` meaning a 24 hour day AND also a time period.

This is what we see in God`s word regarding the `Day of the Lord.` There are many events to occur during the time period and then there is the specific time when the Lord returns, and the sun, moon and stars happening just before that.

The Body of Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord before that period of time - the day of the Lord, for it will not over take us as a thief, as God`s word says.

.......x.........I.......................................................X ......
rapture .......The Day of the Lord (time period) ......Day of the Lord (specific)

Now can you tell me where you think Christ`s own throne is? (Rev. 3: 21). That was the other part of my questions.

Thank you, Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

Hi BAberean,

The Day of the Lord - `Day` Gk. word `hemera` meaning a 24 hour day AND also a time period.

This is what we see in God`s word regarding the `Day of the Lord.` There are many events to occur during the time period and then there is the specific time when the Lord returns, and the sun, moon and stars happening just before that.

The Body of Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord before that period of time - the day of the Lord, for it will not over take us as a thief, as God`s word says.

.......x.........I.......................................................X ......
rapture .......The Day of the Lord (time period) ......Day of the Lord (specific)

Now can you tell me where you think Christ`s own throne is? (Rev. 3: 21). That was the other part of my questions.

Thank you, Marilyn.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

.



.

 

[seventysevens]

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

.



.

your default answer for everything when you don't understand

 

[Marilyn C]

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Hi BABerean,

Thank you for all those great scriptures. I will do each separately as you may want to comment. So let`s look at them together.

2 Thess.1: 7 Note here `..the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,` So there we see that the Lord will come from heaven with His mighty angels, not the Body of Christ. He will be `glorified in His saints,` indicating that the Body of Christ will give Him honour and praise from heaven, as He brings vengeance & justice upon the rebellious.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

So now we see that the Apostle Peter has given us the extent on the `Day of the Lord` time period. We know from the Greek, that the word `day,` is a time period and a specific day. Thus this is -

THE DAY OF THE LORD (GOD ALIMIGHTY) time period.

.......I............(trib)............X..................(millennium - rod of iron rule).............I NH & NE.

The Day of the Lord time period starts at the trib, and goes through the millennium rod of iron rule, till all enemies are put under Christ`s feet. The last rebellion of Satan and then death is the final enemy.

`For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.` (1 Cor. 15: 25 & 26)

Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

Hi BABerean,

Thank you for all those great scriptures. I will do each separately as you may want to comment. So let`s look at them together.

2 Thess.1: 7 Note here `..the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,` So there we see that the Lord will come from heaven with His mighty angels, not the Body of Christ. He will be `glorified in His saints,` indicating that the Body of Christ will give Him honour and praise from heaven, as He brings vengeance & justice upon the rebellious.

Marilyn.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. (See 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Revelation 16:15-16.)
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Get a dictionary and look up the word "descend".


.

 

[Marilyn C]

Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Here we see that the name/authority of God is given to the Body of Christ in all areas -

God`s great kingdom, includes -

- over the earth,
- over the New Jerusalem,
- and Christ`s new name/authority in the third heaven.

`I press towards the goal for the prize of the `upward call,` `on top calling` of God in Christ Jesus.` (Phil. 3: 14)

This is my goal to be with the Lord in the third heaven, as a kingpriest on His throne with Him, as He so desires. Beyond my earthly imagining, but I believe by faith in what His word says regarding where He desires His Body, with Him.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. (See 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Revelation 16:15-16.)
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

.

Hi BABerean,

Yes we notice that the Lord brings those asleep in Him, and then the rest rise to meet the Lord. That word `meet` in the Greek, `apantesis,` is used on three occasions in the NT, each with the connotation of escorting a person to their destination. Jesus will soon be moving to a new destination - His own throne, and the Church will escort Him.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.


Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So BABerean, you believe that the Lord`s own throne, His seat of power will be in the New Jerusalem. Now we know that His glory is there and his authority, (throne) however His seat of authority and power is NOT there.

Notice - `...the holy city, new Jerusalem coming DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN.` (Rev. 21: 2)

The city come down from God out of heaven. Thus the Lord`s own seat of power has not come down for it is in the third heaven. The Lord is part of the Godhead and He does not have His seat of power and authority, down below the angels, down below where Lucifer rules, down below God. No never!!!!

Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

So BABerean, you believe that the Lord`s own throne, His seat of power will be in the New Jerusalem. Now we know that His glory is there and his authority, (throne) however His seat of authority and power is NOT there.

Notice - `...the holy city, new Jerusalem coming DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN.` (Rev. 21: 2)

The city come down from God out of heaven. Thus the Lord`s own seat of power has not come down for it is in the third heaven. The Lord is part of the Godhead and He does not have His seat of power and authority, down below the angels, down below where Lucifer rules, down below God. No never!!!!

Marilyn.

Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb_1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

What is He sitting on now?
Is is a throne or a regular chair?

.

 

[Marilyn C]

Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb_1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

What is He sitting on now?
Is is a throne or a regular chair?

.

That`s what I believe also, BAberean. The Lord is on the Father`s throne till the Father makes the Lord`s enemies His footstool.

`...as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Now the word `throne,` is just a symbol of authority, of course it is not a chair or throne as we know it. It refers to the seat of authority by the Father, who will soon give His Son, His heir, His own authority to deal with the rebellious and rule from the third heaven. That position in the angelic realm has not had a visible ruler since Lucifer was cast out. The Lord in His glorified body will be enthroned in the third heaven where all of heaven resounds with His praises -

`Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom, and strength and honour and glory and blessing.` (Rev. 5: 12)

And I desire to be there on that wonderful day!

Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

And I desire to be there on that wonderful day!

But you say only part of the Body of Christ will be there, because you say the 12 Apostles will be somewhere else...

.

 

[Marilyn C]

But you say only part of the Body of Christ will be there, because you say the 12 Apostles will be somewhere else...

.

Hi BABerean,

I can only tell you what God`s word says, & it is up to us to believe it -

`...Jesus said to them, (disciples/Apostles), "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel."` (Matt. 19: 28)

`And she (NJ) had a great and high wall with 12 gates and 12 angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the 12 tribes of the children of Israel;...Now the wall of the city had 12 foundations and on them were the names of the 12 Apostles of the Lamb.` (Rev. 21: 12 & 14)

So we can clearly see that the 12 Apostles of the Lamb are in the New Jerusalem ruling over the 12 tribes of Israel. There is NO mention of the Body of Christ.

The Lord`s authority (throne) is there, but it is NOT His seat of power and authority, the throne of His glory. That seat of power & authority is in the third heaven above the New Jerusalem.

To place the Lord`s seat of power and authority in the New Jerusalem would make Him lower than the angels, lower than where Lucifer ruled & lower than God. And we know that the Lord is Himself part of the Godhead. And we know that God the Father has -

`...seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places far above all principalities and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but in that which is to come. And He has put all things under His feet and gave Him to be head over ALL THINGS to the church.` (Eph. 1: 20 - 22)

Clearly the Lord`s seat of power and authority is far above all, in this age and the one to come. he is far above the New Jerusalem and those in it. And where the Head is, there shall the Body be. The Body of Christ, the overcomers will be with Him ruling on His throne, (seat of His power and authority) in the third heaven.

Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

I can only tell you what God`s word says, & it is up to us to believe it -

If you can show me where the 12 Apostles are not a part of the Body of Christ, it would be helpful to your point of view...

.

 

[Marilyn C]

If you can show me where the 12 Apostles are not a part of the Body of Christ, it would be helpful to your point of view...

.

Hi BABerean,

OK, so let`s go through this carefully.

In Heb. 12: 22 & 23 we read of the Church, (registered in heaven) and the spirits of just men, (& women). We know that the `spirits of just men` looked for the city which God promised, and that is their inheritance.

`These all died in faith not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off....they desire a better, that is a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 13 - 16)

We know that the 12 Apostles of the Lamb are also in the city, and they are the rulers there. (Matt. 19: 28 & Rev. 21: 14)

So what about the church, the Body of Christ. They are NOT mentioned as looking for that city or even being in that city. So where are they? What has God promised them?

`God having provided something better for us...` (Heb. 11: 40)

That `something better,` in the Greek is a greater dominion. And that is on the Lord`s very own throne which is above all in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

So what about the church, the Body of Christ. They are NOT mentioned as looking for that city or even being in that city. So where are they? What has God promised them?

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

When the Apostle Paul used the words "us all" in the letter above to the Galatian church, who was he talking about?



Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

When addressing the Hebrew Christians in the letter above, who does the word "ye" refer to?



Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Who was Christ addressing in Revelation 3:12 above?


If you have not cut the verses above out of your Bible, then you can see that what you are claiming cannot be correct.

.

 

[sdowney717]

Hi BABerean,

Thank you for all those great scriptures. I will do each separately as you may want to comment. So let`s look at them together.

2 Thess.1: 7 Note here `..the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,` So there we see that the Lord will come from heaven with His mighty angels, not the Body of Christ. He will be `glorified in His saints,` indicating that the Body of Christ will give Him honour and praise from heaven, as He brings vengeance & justice upon the rebellious.

Marilyn.

Angels and SAINTS return with Christ. His mighty angels are the ones performing that destruction
SAINTS will come with Him and one thing we do is judge, including angels and agrees with Jude.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

 

[seventysevens]

What is He sitting on now?
Is is a throne or a regular chair?

Custom made Throne with 12 Jewels with glove leather covering with extra thick padding with Purple brand padding with a high back built in head rest

 

[Marilyn C]

Angels and SAINTS return with Christ. His mighty angels are the ones performing that destruction
SAINTS will come with Him and one thing we do is judge, including angels and agrees with Jude.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Hi sdowney,

Thought you may be interested to know that the actual word in Jude is `holy ones,` and that can be saints or angels. Thus we need more of scripture to find out which. We read that the Lord Himself only said that the angels come with Him, NOT the Body of Christ. (Matt. 25: 31 and many others)

regards, Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

When the Apostle Paul used the words "us all" in the letter above to the Galatian church, who was he talking about?



Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

When addressing the Hebrew Christians in the letter above, who does the word "ye" refer to?



Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Who was Christ addressing in Revelation 3:12 above?


If you have not cut the verses above out of your Bible, then you can see that what you are claiming cannot be correct.

.

Hi BABerean,

Jerusalem in scripture is shown to us as Mount Zion AND the city. The two parts make up Jerusalem. Too often we just think of the city but the ruling area, Mount Zion is there also. So in Gal 4: 26, the `us` is the `just men (& women) and the church. Both these are separately mentioned in Heb. 12: 22 & 23).

The `ye` mentioned there is of course the Hebrew believers in the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is the one who will have a great dominion than the OT saints. (Heb. 11: 40)

In Rev. 3: 12 we read of the authority that the overcomers have who will sit with Christ on His own throne, His seat of authority and power over all. The word `name` refers to the authority, just as we use a name to gain access to legal things.

Marilyn.