Beginning of the Salvation journey , phase 1 of 5

[watchman 2]

w2

 

[watchman 2]

"Marvin Knox said in a previous post:

The salvation process (not at all inclusive) is roughly as follows:
a promise to the Son by the Father in eternity past

election and predestination by God of the individual with whom we are concerned;

providential control of circumstances in the life of the individual by God to bring what He has predestined to occur through our faith into a situation where His decree will come to past through our decision for Him;

a general calling by God through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ;

a specific or effectual calling by God in the heart of the individual to bring about conviction;

repentance by the individual accompanied by saving faith;

justification before God coming through that faith;

a sealing with the Holy Spirit for eternity;

ongoing filling with the Holy Spirit of God as the person grows in the sanctification process;

the intercessory work of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit

a judgment of our life in Christ at the Judgment Seat of Christ;

the resurrection of the individual if that has not already happened in the rapture of the church;

ruling with Christ for a thousand years if the Millennium reign is taken literally;

the judgment of angels if that has not already occurred

eternal glorification in whatever form that may be if that has not been fully accomplished;

eternal communion with God - bringing Him glory because of His grace which He displayed in our salvation and will display toward us in the ages to come.

This is a rather basic display of the evangelical understanding of the salvation process - albeit given from a generally Reformed and pre-millennial viewpoint.

Only the Spirit of God Who has been my counselor from the first moment I believed knows why on earth I bother.

Your presentation is incomplete , please add the required Biblical happenings so we can see your entire understanding. If you need to know what those happenings are , refer to my process.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Your presentation is incomplete , please add the required Biblical happenings so we can see your entire understanding. If you need to know what those happenings are , refer to my process.

In looking through your 5 lists of Biblical happenings I see that all of them are included in my compact list as well. The difference is the manner and timing of the events. Look and you'll see that it is so.

The main difference in our lists is the exclusion of most or all of the lines which you have included which either start with or include the word "NO" and or the word "NOT".

There's a basic reason for that of course. All of God's promises are yea and amen in Christ. I don't expect that you would understand that having never received His sacrifice at Calvary as your only hope of salvation in this life or in the life to come.

I took a chance on you - even against my better judgement and the advice of others here - because I figured that your salvation was important enough to at least try to have a meaningful discussion.

It's not like I didn't already know it. But you aren't looking for an intelligent conversation about salvation. You're looking for a punch in the nose.

Fortunately the internet keeps me over arms length from you or I'd probably end up sinning mightily.

Even if I did manage to punch you in the nose - I'd still be saved though. Thank God for His unfailing grace toward me.

Come to think of it - probably a good whip of cords treatment would be more in order for your very rude, foolish, and heretical activity here.

I wouldn't be in your shoes on the other side of this life for all the gold in the streets of glory.

Have fun talking to yourself.

Hopefully this thread will die on the vine just like your other failed threads.

 

[watchman 2]

I took a chance on you - even against my better judgement and the advice of others here - because I figured that your salvation was important enough to at least try to have a meaningful discussion.

It's not like I didn't already know it. But you aren't looking for an intelligent conversation about salvation. You're looking for a punch in the nose.

Fortunately the internet keeps me over arms length from you or I'd probably end up sinning mightily.

Even if I did manage to punch you in the nose - I'd still be saved though. Thank God for His unfailing grace toward me.

Come to think of it - probably a good whip of cords treatment would be more in order for your very rude, foolish, and heretical activity here.

I wouldn't be in your shoes on the other side of this life for all the gold in the streets of glory.

Have fun talking to yourself.

Hopefully this thread will die on the vine just like your other failed threads.

w2

 

[Marvin Knox]

My reason for anger toward you is because you have presented yourself as someone who wants an honest discussion and then play games when another person tries to have one. That is the same as lying in my view and I have little patience for it on a Christian forum.

I actually thought , and still do , think theres is a chance we could start a discussion from the beginning of the process , like i tried to a week ago...................... lets talk , from the beginning! Point by point.

By all means do so now or don't pretend that you want to. This is your chance to show your intent. A give and take between you and I follows. Please continue the discussion.

Your presentation is incomplete , please add the required Biblical happenings so we can see your entire understanding. If you need to know what those happenings are , refer to my process.

In looking through your 5 lists of Biblical happenings I see that all of them are included in my compact list as well. The difference is the manner and timing of the events. Look and you'll see that it is so.............The main difference in our lists is my exclusion of most or all of the lines which you have included which either start with or include the word "NO" and or the word "NOT"......... There's a basic reason for that of course. All of God's promises are yea and amen in Christ..........

 

[watchman 2]

w2

 

[Marvin Knox]

phase 1

1) The world or the field.

a) Christ bought the entire field to get the treasure out of it.
b) The start of the drawing process begins. Jn 6:44
c) People are called out from this field.
d) People are not called out from this field.
e) We are called out to be saints. (perfected) Rom. 1:7
f) The beginning of the perfecting process starts here.
g) Not sealed with the Holy Spirit yet. Rom. 8:9
h) No prayer or worship is acceptable by God at this point. (He's not ours yet) Rom. 8:9

Phase 2

2) The sacrifice

a) The sacrifice of our life and will to God . (pisteuo)
b) Here , an act of Faith (or our surrender) is either accepted or not accepted by God.
c) No saving Faith at this point.
d) Alternative paths are created here to go around the sacrifice of our life and will to God. One is thinking we can just "believe in Gods Word" .
e) We still do not have the Spirit of Christ sealed in us yet.
f) Prayer and worship are still not acceptable to God , not His yet.

Phase two is all about Pisteuo , "the surrendering of our life and will to God." At this phase , we make our surrender to Him , and he is going to make the decision to accept the surrendered life as genuine , (not perfect). Or , he will not accept the surrendered life because he deems it not genuine. So if He does not accept the surrendered life , that would keep us in Phase one until our surrender is acceptable. Pisteuo or faithing into Christ is two parts . One "A personal surrender to Him , and two , a life inspired by such surrender. " (Vines)
If we make the surrendering of our life and will to God , and then back it up with decisions that support and show God we are serious about the surrendering of our lives to Him , He will move us forward into the next phase of the journey. If we surrender our lives to God one day , and then turn around and every decision we are making on a daily basis is serving ourselves , not the decision to surrender our life to God , He will not accept the surrendered life as genuine and not move us into the next phase of the journey.

God is not a beggar on a street corner with cup in hand saying , "will you please believe in me." And at the second you put your "belief" in his cup , your saved for eternity , it just doesn't work that way . At this phase ,believing in Him and or His Word will produce nothing, because He and His Word are not ours to claim yet. The only thing available for us to do is to continually surrender our life and will to Him , and make the hundreds of decisions every day, showing God that it is not our life anymore but his now.


Phase 3

3) Testing ground or parable of the sower.

a) The Word of God or Christ is the seed.
b) The called out ones are the soil.
c) A grafting process begins to happen here.
d) A response starts to happen.
e) Paradoxical truths start to form here.
f) This is a proving ground.
g) Here , Christ is starting to be formed in our hearts by faith. (by the continual surrendering of our lives to Him)
h) Many daily decisions are made here that show God we really do believe God has taken the surrendered life and will that has been offered to Him.
i) No prayer or worship is acceptable by God yet. (because He's not ours yet) Rom. 8:9
j) No saving faith here yet.
k) The Holy Spirit has not been sealed into us here yet.
l) Our surrender or offering to God is whats being tested here.
m) 3 out of the 4 accepted, surrendered , lives will fail and not move forward.

Unless "pisteuo' or the surrendering of our life and will to God has been fulfilled by us , and accepted by God , we can't move from the second phase to the third phase.

Most people understand that they are some how saved , sealed , and able to claim Christ and all his promises in between phase one and two. As you can see , alot has to happen in the Salvation journey. I have two more phases of my understanding of the Salvation journey yet to go , phases 4 and 5.

Phase 4

4) The surrendered life or sacrifice is accepted here.

a) Here is the point where the surrendered life has been accepted.
b) Here , God seals the Holy Spirit inside us.
c) A Spiritual awakening happens here.
d) Dynamite power goes off here.
e) Gods nature begins to flow.
f) The kind of giving that can't be imitated starts to flow.
g) Saving Faith begins to be fulfilled.
h) Prayer and worship are acceptable now.
i) For the first time , He is in us , and we are in Him.
j) JUSTIFICATION STARTS HERE. (we are seen by the Father as just like Christ.)
k) Again , attempts to go around this accepted sacrifice , to no avail.


Phase 5

5) The product.

a) Here , God is producing faithers , that are responding with saving faith. ( continued daily surrendering of ourselves to Him.)
b) Here , a precondition has been met.
c) A continuous state of surrendering happens here.
d) The perfecting process is being perfected.
e) The mind of Christ has been given.
f) This is not a destination.
g) We should expect the Word or Christs nature to continuously flow through us.
h) Praying without ceasing happens here.
i) Sanctification has happened here. (separation from our sinful nature.)
j) Rom 7:14-21 is happening here. (Sanctification)

Here is my understanding of the Salvation process , now i would like to see yours.

No misrepresentations please.

I have shown you my understanding of the salvation process.

I have also shown you where, in the scriptures, prayer and worship are shown to be acceptable to God from the very beginning of the process. The ability to approach God through prayer and worship is in fact said to be absolutely necessary to the testing and sanctification process ahead.

I have also shown you where in the scriptural accounts the Holy Spirit is given to believers immediately upon saving faith being displayed by them through the acceptance of the gospel message on a personal basis.

I have also shown you where the epistles are addressed to believers at various stages of salvation. They all use the past tense concerning these sometimes new and sometimes rather carnal believers as being "saved", "justified", "sealed", "filled" and various other things related to salvation.

I have clearly shown that your conception of the various "stages" of salvation is flawed from the first.

You have yet to address where you have been shown to be wrong. You just keep posting the same silly list again and again hoping to find someone who will not be able to refute you. This is the same silliness and dishonesty that brought your other threads to a dead end.

If you refuse to engage in a normal discussion and rather continue with your silliness - this thread will die just as the others did.

It's not too late if you want to have a conversation about the salvation process.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The real problem with the true Salvation process as i've presented it , is that the people that God draws or calls to Christ do not want to respond with the required mandatory act of Faith that would start the relationship with Christ , (pisteuo) The only response God is looking for to allow us any where near His Son is as the Vines defines it , "Personally surrendering our lives to Him , and living a life inspired bu that surrender."

But no one wants to do that , so they create their own understanding of "pisteuo" or how to create a relationship with Christ. This understanding is seen when people go around the surrendering of our life to God , and say it's just a 3 second moment of "belief" that is the salvation experience. Or wait , good news for those "believers", it's now a less that one second process i've just heard.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain that phone booth salvation .

Do you know what you preach is Lordship Salvation. There is a word for it.

Faith is different from surrendering one's life. Two different words as a matter of fact, so why you cannot see they are different and you are adding to the gospel is beyond me.

But how you got that list of steps is really odd. What type of church taught you this?

 

[Ron Gurley]

Salvation is not a PROCESS. It is an EVENT!
SANCTIFICATION is a PROCESS!!