Beating the Dead Horse: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse

[FaithinHIM1968]

I don't think they are above the law. I think that the wrong people are having the blame shifted to them. I believe that what was done was wrong but to continue to persecute the United States for the actions of a few soliders IS wrong and it IS a blow for the United States.

 

[datan]

I don't think it was just a few soldiers who were involved.

It seems pretty widespread and goes far up the chain of command.

 

[Citizen of Earth]

While these acts are intolerable, they by no means are even a glimmer to what Saddam did.
These prisoners would have been tortured for years, with no one caring about it.
Men and woman were tortured continuously in these prisons. The Saddam regime had rape rooms where women were brought for the enjoyment of Saddam's sons.
Saddam killed thousands and used money for oil to build and maintain his palaces. While his people starved and suffered under U.N. sanctions.

We will ensure these people, Soldiers and Saddam will pay for their crimes.
Something Saddam didn't offer. Any opposed to Saddam died or disappeared.

So listen to the Arab news and their slant on the news. We are not perfect, but we punish the offenders. an you say the same of any tyrrant dictator in the region?

Would you adhere to your own logic and advocate the overthrow of the USA as well?


(Hey mods, is it against the forum rules to advocate the overthrow of America? Sometimes I'm tempted to do so...)

 

[Yitzchak]

Rumsfeld said in an interview that it wasn't torture, it was abuse. He said that because he is denying the allegations that the guards were instructed by those in command to soften up the prisonors for questioning and obviously took it too far.

 

[Zlex]

Would you adhere to your own logic and advocate the overthrow of the USA as well?


(Hey mods, is it against the forum rules to advocate the overthrow of America? Sometimes I'm tempted to do so...)

I think the mans post went way over your head.

What he is saying is that "We" are naked sweaty apes.

We are not all criminal, stupid, feral naked sweaty apes.

We are all imperfect.

We are not all criminally stupid in our imperfection, near feral creatures. In fact, few of us are, but those few have an impact far in excess of their numbers.

The attempt to compare our mote of can't avoid them feral naked sweaty criminal apes with those of the former Saddam regime fails in one glaring respect; track the fate of same in both, they diverge by 180 degrees on the map, and that divergence means something; civilized countries are not countries without feral naked sweaty apes; civilized countries are countries that rein them in.

We punish and prosecute and purge ours; Saddam rewarded his, and in fact, on some of their birthdays used to sing "Happy Birthday sons, some day all this will be yours."

When we start doing that, then all of this self-loathing free for all angsting and whining that is being screeched out will start making more sense. Until then, it is just painful venting at the latest example of we are naked sweaty apes, too.

 

[theeyesoftammyfaye]

did anyone watch the daily show thursday night? they had a good "editorial" on the whole iraqi prisoner abuse thing, talking about how we say one thing and do another.

"just because america DID abuse and torture inmates doesn't mean it is something america WOULD do."

teehee.

 

[Citizen of Earth]

We punish and prosecute and purge ours; Saddam rewarded his, and in fact, on some of their birthdays used to sing "Happy Birthday sons, some day all this will be yours."

When we start doing that, then all of this self-loathing free for all angsting and whining that is being screeched out will start making more sense. Until then, it is just painful venting at the latest example of we are naked sweaty apes, too.

Is the administration taking action because they knew what was going on, or because it was exposed? That's the kicker.

 

[Caedmon]

did anyone watch the daily show thursday night? they had a good "editorial" on the whole iraqi prisoner abuse thing, talking about how we say one thing and do another.

"just because america DID abuse and torture inmates doesn't mean it is something america WOULD do."

teehee.

Hahahahaha! American political rhetoric at its finest...

 

[Existential1]

"just because america DID abuse and torture inmates doesn't mean it is something america WOULD do."

A data geometry for the criminally insane: and they might well manage to make it work; and further remake the global world in its image.
How do we pull that geometry out of the noise of the present: and begin to forge one that could serve the sane; then remake the global world in its image.
Running sanity defecits is not a good idea.

Good that CF is back online: you only know what you've got, when its gone.

 

[Susan]

Oh please so extreme conditions are carte blanch to throw away any shred of deceny and morals you might possess. These soldiers were not on the frontline in Fallujah or southern Iraq. How extreme aret he conditions guarding a man in a locked cell. This was not a mob where cooler heads might not prevail. They need to be held accountable for their actions. Period. There is no excuse for how they treated those men, none. And that accountability needs to be extended right up to the top with Donald Rumsfeld and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Like I said before animosity and emotioanl stress should have been part of the planning in instructiing ALL soldeirs who serve in Iraq. However it seems that the only plan there was, was to invade and everything after that has been reactionary.

Absolutely agreed, and great post. I personally believe that these soldiers should actually be tried for war crimes-and the higher-ups that instructed them to do this or let it happen on their watch should be as well.

This is inexcusable conduct. There is no justification, no reason for the torture of other human beings, no matter what they are accused of doing or have done.

 

[oldrooster]

We hung German soldiers for this, these soldiers should be punished as well.

 

[Existential1]

these soldiers should be punished as well

I think I would trade that for a gateway to the full facts and truths, of what allowed and contributed to, these final actions of abuse of detainees (who under law, were always innocent, until proven guilty through due legal process).

 

[I_love_Jesus_4_life]

The abuse is horrible! As Christians we should be appauled by this, and pray that the abused will be healed.

 

[Existential1]

The abuse is horrible! As Christians we should be appauled by this, and pray that the abused will be healed.

Amen.

What could bring about that healing ILJ4L?

.

 

[feral]

As much as people want to see it as one, this war is not a high school football game, and we cannot justify abuse and torture just because we don't like the country from which the victims came. I've seen so much "hooray for our side" and very little mention of the FACT that these are human beings, that God made them and that God loves them as much as he loves us. Why you need an agnostic to remind you, I don't know, but apparently so.

 

[Existential1]

we cannot justify abuse and torture just because we don't like the country from which the victims came. I've seen so much "hooray for our side" and very little mention of the FACT that these are human beings, that God made them and that God loves them as much as he loves us. Why you need an agnostic to remind you, I don't know, but apparently so.

Does feral have a point here?
Or, can we Christians remember God's creation and love perfectly well ourselves?
Have we truly remembered this in Iraq?
Or, has some criticism of Islam led us to take our eye of this particular ball?

 

[Rab Tull]

I voted with the majority on this one, but what I'd really like to see is the people who lied us into this mess impeached or voted out of office.

Grace & Peace, Rab

 

[renegade pariah]

As much as people want to see it as one, this war is not a high school football game, and we cannot justify abuse and torture just because we don't like the country from which the victims came. I've seen so much "hooray for our side" and very little mention of the FACT that these are human beings, that God made them and that God loves them as much as he loves us. Why you need an agnostic to remind you, I don't know, but apparently so.

Bravo!