BABerean2

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Its no use for us to debate, lets just wait for Lord Jesus to fulfill His words.

Luke 12:37 "Blessed are those servants whom the Master will find on the alert when He comes; truly I say to you, that He will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.

Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(see also Matthew 25:41)

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.


There will be no Second chances after His return.


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sdowney717

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Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

Mat 24:39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Mat 24:40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

If read in context, those "taken" in the passage above are destroyed.

Tim LaHaye did not even get the title right for his books and movies.

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That entire left behind series about the pretrib rapture is false teaching. People fell for it just like they do any messed up doctrine. When they have itching ears, they want to hear fables because they feel good to the flesh, the carnal mind.
 
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That entire left behind series about the pretrib rapture is false teaching. People fell for it just like they do any messed up doctrine. When they have itching ears, they want to hear fables because they feel good to the flesh, the carnal mind.
Please feel free to provide any scriptural evidence that there will not be a pretribulation rapture.
 
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BABerean2

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Please feel free to provide any scriptural evidence that there will not be a pretribulation rapture.

We find the words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10.
These two words prove that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.
The timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5 on, "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".

Based on 2 Peter 3:10, and Revelation 16:15-16 it is a Second Coming event.

There is no trip back to heaven in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 or 5.



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We find the words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10.
These two words prove that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.
The timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is found at the beginning of chapter 5 on, "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".

Based on 2 Peter 3:10, and Revelation 16:15-16 it is a Second Coming event.

There is no trip back to heaven in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 or 5.



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1 Thes 5
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

Try keeping things in context. It will make things easier to understand.
 
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If you are wondering if there will be a pretribulation rapture, the answer is yes. As you can see from the above post, no one could provide a scripture that proves that there will not be a pretribulation rapture. Does that prove there will be a pretribulation rapture.......certainly not. But there are plenty of scriptures to prove there will be, starting with......It will be like the days of Noah. They were eating and drinking until the day that Noah entered the ark.......which was 7 days before the flood. Since they were eating and drinking until the day that Noah entered the ark, we know that the rapture of the Church will occur before the third seal famines.
 
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Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Have you ever noticed that no one really knows what to do with the harvest of Revelation 14? Certainly it is a rapture. It is not the second coming when we return on white horses.
The rapture of Revelation 14 is a pre wrath rapture. That means none of the 7 trumpets of wrath have not sounded.

The great multitude of Rev 7 includes the harvest that you see in Rev 14.


Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Merge Revelation 7 and Revelation 14.

Rev 7:1-8 ) The 144,000 are sealed
Rev 14:1-5 ) The 144,000 witness and are raptured.
Rev 14:6-12 ) These events occur.
Rev 14:13-16 ) Pre wrath rapture....harvest....the gathering.
Rev 7: 9-17 ) The great multitude
Rev 14:18-19 ) The world is cast into the wrath of God
Rev 8 trumpets and Rev 15 vials overlap.


And yes I know about this verse:
Rev 15
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues;

But I also know about the rest of the verse:
for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

You might need to understand that the tribulation and wrath of God are not the same thing. You might need to understand that we are not appointed to wrath. That includes the church raptured in the pretribulation rapture and the 12 tribes raptured in the pre wrath rapture.

Only the remnant.......nation of Israel........will be around when the wrath of God is poured out.
 
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BABerean2

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Is there anyone that can provide a verse from the Bible to show that there will not be a pretribulation rapture?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet
, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (The moon does not gives its normal light during a blood moon.)
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

.
 
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Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet
, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (The moon does not gives its normal light during a blood moon.)
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

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Can you explain how this proves there will not be a pretribulation rapture? I don't think you have this answer available for cut and paste.
 
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Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet
, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (The moon does not gives its normal light during a blood moon.)
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

.
This coming of the son of man is the harvest of Revelation 14, which is part of the great multitude of Rev 7.
 
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BABerean2

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Can you explain how this proves there will not be a pretribulation rapture? I don't think you have this answer available for cut and paste.


Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


The angels said He will return in the same way that He left.

The Apostles saw him go up into a cloud and He will come in the same manner.
He will be seen returning from the cloud.

How much clearer could it be?

It will not be a "secret".

.
 
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seventysevens

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Yes Jesus will return to the same place in which he ascended into heaven , but these scriptures are not about the gathering nor about the harvest -rapture



Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The angels said He will return in the same way that He left.


The Apostles saw him go up into a cloud and He will come in the same manner.
He will be seen returning from the cloud.

How much clearer could it be?

It will not be a "secret".

.
 
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