• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

SQLservant

Newbie
Dec 20, 2011
380
18
✟23,092.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Which does your parish use (for those readers in the UK), and which do you prefer?

I currently attend a non-liturgical church, but I fancy myself an Anglican at heart, and I like to read Morning Prayer from Common Worship when I get the chance. I like the order and the responses and the seasonal variation in it better than the old BCP, personally. How do you feel about it?
 

MKJ

Contributor
Jul 6, 2009
12,260
776
East
✟31,394.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
In Canada we have a similar but not identical split. What you cann CW is very similar to our Book of Alternative Services. Our official - but less used - book is the BCP.

Our BCP however has been updated for language use over the years. Not to make it a modern translation as in books like the BAS, but to make it more easily understandable. So its been very conservatively done, a word here and there, or occasionally a small change in other areas. So in many ways it is a much more usable book than the CofE BCP while having very similar content and also the same kind of feel.

My parish used the BCP, and is committed to that on what I guess you might call a philosophical level - it sees the BAS as a significant (though not officially approved) change in theological direction.

I am not sure what you mean by seasonal variation - there are lots of variations in the BCP according to the liturgical seasons and occasions.
 
Upvote 0

SQLservant

Newbie
Dec 20, 2011
380
18
✟23,092.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Interesting! Is the BAS more liberal in its portrayal of the faith, or was the concern something else?

Also, what I mean by seasonal variation is, for example, in CW's Morning Prayer office, there are different prayers of thanksgiving, different canticles (or antiphons at least), and different intercessions depending on the season. From the BCP, I don't see as much of that. What am I missing?
 
Upvote 0

MKJ

Contributor
Jul 6, 2009
12,260
776
East
✟31,394.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens

Hmm. i am not sure if I would use the term liberal here exactally. It has a different understanding of Tradition, of the role of Scripture, and of liturgy. It is congregation-centric, a victim of the scholarly errors of the 20th century liturgical movement, and it has a very 1970s flavour.

As far as seasonal variation - the Canadian BCP has a few examples in the Morning Prayer service aside from the daily psalms and lessons: there are the opening sentences; the collects; there are variations for the fixed canticles like the Venite ot Te Deum on some dates like Ember days, Advent, or Lent; what hymns to choose would be based on season; and then there are quite a few prayer that can be used on any occasion that it is deemed appropriate, be it a weather event or a strike or a birthday.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens

I've come across almost no parishes that exclusively or mainly use the 1662. Mostly it's confined to early morning services (for the elderly) and evensong (where it can't be equalled).

I have been to one parish that used it exclusively. The entire parish congregation totalled twelve people, not one under the age of 75.
 
Upvote 0

SQLservant

Newbie
Dec 20, 2011
380
18
✟23,092.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I've come across almost no parishes that exclusively or mainly use the 1662. Mostly it's confined to early morning services (for the elderly) and evensong (where it can't be equalled).
I see. So it's used rather like Rite I is in TEC, these days.
I have been to one parish that used it exclusively. The entire parish congregation totalled twelve people, not one under the age of 75.
This, sadly, describes both of the Episcopal churches I've been to. The bigger one had a couple younger people in it, but they were both altar servers, maybe even the rector's children or grandchildren.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens

I forgot to mention that the church I had in mind used the 1662 communion service, but used the parts in an order significantly different to that in which they are printed and with a number of Marian and other Catholic additions, (which were not provided in any form) so that the service would was completely unfollowable to any visitor who might dare to enter.
 
Upvote 0
Aug 28, 2010
284
13
✟24,410.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married

I suppose this was what I was trying to get at. It seems that morning BCP services are purely to cater for those who have always had BCP (the elder members) while CW is the de facto standard now.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
I suppose this was what I was trying to get at. It seems that morning BCP services are purely to cater for those who have always had BCP (the elder members) while CW is the de facto standard now.

CW, or its equivalents elsewhere (APBA in Australia)

Except for Evensong. Sadly a proper evensong is virtually non-existent in most of Australia and even St Paul's cathedral (Melbourne) uses APBA for it, but 1662 can't be beaten for that.
 
Upvote 0

Rurik

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2007
463
15
✟683.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married


St Johns Reid in Canberra uses the 1662 BCP for 2 out of three services on a Sunday and regularly uses it for evensong. Also Christ Church Cathedral Newcastle regularly uses BCP for evensong (well it did when I left Newcastle).
 
Upvote 0

Rurik

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2007
463
15
✟683.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
That was an honest you be the judge. I have very little incite on how this community sees it self I just go past the a sign that has the services listed every so often. Given the times these are on and the domination of the BCP service I would lay a bet that at least one of these are considered the primary service.
 
Upvote 0

Timothy

Mad Anglican geek at large
Jan 1, 2004
8,055
368
Birmingham.... [Bur-min'-um]
✟25,265.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
CW all the way. I think we've done one BCP service since we became an independent parish. An evening service that a friend led that most of the congregation loved but the person then in charge of service leading and preaching hated so she ditched it due to her own personal preferences and we've seen no resurgence since.
 
Upvote 0

Sean611

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2012
965
150
Missouri
✟28,096.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Can someone explain to this American Anglican what is meant by Common Worship vs. BCP? Is Common Worship a book of alternative services whereas the BCP is the 1662 Prayer Book?

In the U.S. Episcopal Church, the vast majority of parishes use the '79 BCP, while a small (yet dedicated) group still use the '28 BCP. Incorporation of the Anglican Missal is not uncommon in Anglo-Catholic parishes. That said, there are alternative liturgies, however, their use seems very uncommon in the Episcopal Church.
 
Upvote 0

Timothy

Mad Anglican geek at large
Jan 1, 2004
8,055
368
Birmingham.... [Bur-min'-um]
✟25,265.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
It's all a bit confusing in the CofE. The 1662 BCP was the de facto standard until the 20s. In 1928 they attempted to get an alternative prayerbook (a revision) approved. It passed in General Synod, but not in Parliament, but was still used, de facto anyway for a while. From the 40s-70s, Liturgical revision was rampant (there's an excellent case that could be made that it was the Church of England's liturgical reform that spurred many of the actions at Vatican II for Liturgy, actually, even if they'd deny it wholeheartedly) with three primary service books, known as Series 1, Series 2 and Series 3. Series three morphed into the Alternative Service Book 1980 in, unsurprisingly, 1980. Then over the next 20 years, various alternatives were thrown around, including 'Principles for Worship' which was the change to inclusive language and developed 'A Service of the Word', a flexible framework for less liturgical services. In the 1990s, it was attempted to bring all this revision together into one book, CW, which has a huge wide variety of options, all the way from 1662-ish, all the way through to very contemporary language, designed to be used by both incredibly low-church evangelicals through to high-church Anglo-Catholics and all the variance there is in between. If you want more details, I can provide a copy of my dissertation, which has a fairly significant history of the changes between 1980-2000.
 
Upvote 0

SQLservant

Newbie
Dec 20, 2011
380
18
✟23,092.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Don't forget the handy-dandy sample ideas for parishes all along that continuum!
 
Upvote 0

Timothy

Mad Anglican geek at large
Jan 1, 2004
8,055
368
Birmingham.... [Bur-min'-um]
✟25,265.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Don't forget the handy-dandy sample ideas for parishes all along that continuum!

Mmm. I'm not convinced they're all that helpful, but then I'm an academic. I never find things that are pre-wrapped up helpful. I want our liturgists to be thinking critically about the liturgy.
 
Upvote 0