Baptists and racism?

[pgmike]

This not making a judgement on all Baptists, but jsut a strong trend i have noticed. Why is it that there seems to be so much mroe racism in the baptist denomination. Ive lived all over the US and have attended many churches of many denominations and it seems like baptists have a much greater problem with this. I attend a baptist church and am a leader at the baptist collegiate ministries at UF and it is a problem that is very evident to me here. It really makes me mad. Im not black so it isnt like its being directed towards me.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I attended Baptist churches in Michigan, Missouri and in Arizona, and don't see that Baptists have the corner on racism at all. Instead I have found a mix, with very many trying not to be racist. It depends on the person really.

 

[TexasCatholic]

It's odd that you should suggest this, since Baptist is the most common BLACK church denomination in the United States.

The following are BLACK Baptist denominations: National Baptist Convention USA, The National Baptist Convention of America, and the Progressive National Baptist Convention of America, The National Missionary Baptist Convention, and the Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship.

Here's a link for the National Baptist Convent, USA, a Black Baptist denomination:

http://www.nationalbaptist.com

God bless,

-James

 

[Veritas]

It's odd that you should suggest this, since Baptist is the most common BLACK church denomination in the United States.

The following are BLACK Baptist denominations: National Baptist Convention USA, The National Baptist Convention of America, and the Progressive National Baptist Convention of America, The National Missionary Baptist Convention, and the Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship.

Here's a link for the National Baptist Convent, USA, a Black Baptist denomination:

http://www.nationalbaptist.com

God bless,

-James

I think it's important to keep in mind that the majority of black "immigrants" to this country were slaves from Africa. They were bought by Southern plantation slave owners who were by and large Baptist. Therefore, it makes sense that many of these slaves either followed in their master's footsteps or were proselytized to become Baptist. Consequently, particularly in the South, a majority of Blacks are Baptist. This is not necessarily the case in Northern states.

 

[Asar'el]

I find it interesting to see different views when folks talk about 'racism'; like the opening poster saying

Im not black so it isnt like its being directed towards me.

How many others see 'black' as another race? And how many see it as the only other race?

Personally I don't believe in 'races'; I find God "...hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth..."

I have heard some (in error!) try to twist the curse on Canan (for his father's sake) to justify their actions or attitudes towards black folk. But as in all things, it is people being different (that is, being people). I don't think a particular denomination is 'better' or 'worse' than another in this respect; but as in most things, each differ according to the character of people, which God has made diverse one from another.

 

[TexasCatholic]

I think it's important to keep in mind that the majority of black "immigrants" to this country were slaves from Africa. They were bought by Southern plantation slave owners who were by and large Baptist. Therefore, it makes sense that many of these slaves either followed in their master's footsteps or were proselytized to become Baptist. Consequently, particularly in the South, a majority of Blacks are Baptist. This is not necessarily the case in Northern states.

The National Baptist Convention, USA is the largest Black Christian denomination in the entire United States, and all the Black Baptist denominations added together makes for a significant majority of Black Americans.

Your theory about the reason may or may not be true, but it sounds very plausible, but perhaps it has less to do with their slave-owners church affiliation than the mere fact that the South is full of Baptist churches. If one was freed from slavery, then decided to take up religion, where would he/she go?... The local church, right?... Chances are this would be Baptist. The second likely choice is Methodist -- the second-largest Black Christian denomination.

I haven't researched the history of why Black Americans chose a particular denomation, nor do I have a particular interest in race-based history discussions, as I think it is a narrow view. History should be viewed from as broad a perspective as possible. However, I was simply providing valid and clear information that Baptists are not racist or anti-Black, and that in fact, more Black Christians are BAPTISTS than any other denomination of Christianity!

As for why people automatically think of "black" and "white" when it comes to the word "racism", it's because that is the classic racism in the United States, and is almost always the "race controversy" being discussed when the word "racism" is used with no other qualifying statements. If someone means a different race, they usually say so.

So, what other races (besides African-American/Black), is someone supposing that Baptists are racist against?

I could point out the significant quantity of Hispanics who are Baptist, despite the stereotype that they are all Catholic. They (as far as I know?) don't have their own denominations, but they are very well represented in the Baptist denominations. I can list of names of Baptist Missionaries who have operated churches in Mexico, Central and South America for many years. I can give you the names of some Spanish-speaking Baptist churches I've attended here in Texas. I could point out that my cousin was married by a Hispanic Baptist minister, who also preaches in Spanish on Sundays to a predominately Mexican-American congregation at a Baptist church.

So, again, I reject the idea that Baptists are racist. Now, of course, in any group you're going to have racist individuals. I think you'd be incorrect to associate that with a particular denomonation, especially Baptist, given the information I just gave ya.

God Bless,

-James

 

[seebs]

The mere existence of a "Black Baptist denomination" suggests some degree of racial segregation, no?

 

[PaperSword]

True.

I believe that there is one "race" the HUMAN race. Although some individuals in churches i've been to claim, not publicly, of course, that a black person cannot be saved... I looked over the Bible...all i came up with was this.

Romans 10:9, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

This isn't specific for either white or black or other. I'm sure that the writer was referring to the human race as a whole, concerning salvation. God loves all equally, He gave us his Son to prove that.

Yes, older white baptists *may* have a tendency to be racist, this is not proven, do note, just what i've come across over time. With wisdom, one can see that they are mistaken...funny concept there...a younger white male baptist (me) able to obtain more "wisdom" than an older man... Dont get me wrong, i'm NOT saying that all baptists, old are young are racist or aren't. i think its left up to the individual, not the congregation/denomination as a whole. I see racism as foolishness anyways. I've never known a racist blind person.

I find that loving each other, as Christ loves us, can keep the true Believer from being racist at all, regardless of age.

May Christ be with you.

 

[pgmike]

So, again, I reject the idea that Baptists are racist. Now, of course, in any group you're going to have racist individuals. I think you'd be incorrect to associate that with a particular denomonation, especially Baptist, given the information I just gave ya.
-James

then how do you reconcile the fact that i have known so many racist baptists? in many cities and chruches.

i chose to say black bc that is mainly the race that they insult and discriminate against. and i was saying that it is the white baptists that were racist not the nonwhites. i am half white half venezuelan, but they dont discriminate against me bc i am a blue eyed pale guy that looks completely white.

the prevelance is amazing. i attended one nondenominational churhc in my city for a year 3 years ago and i never sensed a bit of racism, but since then i have sensed it in all but one of the many baptist church i have attended since then.

one of my close friends was black and attended the bcm and stopped coming bc of the underlying racism he felt.

im surprised nobody else has seen this trend especially when i thought it was a common belief about baptists. before i became a baptist, i heard it plenty of times.

 

[JVD]

Interesting topic... I just recently talked to some friends who left this area (Alaska) and moved to Missouri. They were very surprised at the amount of racism in the area. They especially discussed their two neighbors who were baptists and attended church 2X a week and yet were extremely racist.

These people are not christians. They talked about how they hired some baptist workers to help them build their home and got rid of them because of their racism. They then found a Mennonite father and son team to help them, about which they could not find enough good things to say.

 

[lucypevensie]

I've not seen racism in the Baptist churches I've been in. Actually, I've only been in 2 churches my whole life and both were baptist.

A few years ago when our church was going through some significant growth our pastor took a look back at at some old church records and papers. What he discovered was some really awful racist information. Black people were not allowed to become members in the church. They could attend and be baptised in our church, but if they wanted to be members they were asked to go to the black baptist church in town. So decades later, when all of this had been forgotten and black people were welcome, our pastor still issued a public denouncement of ALL racism in our church. Even though blacks were now welcome he still felt it would be good to wipe the slate of the past clean and move on from there with a renewed commitment to treat all people as equals.

I can't help but think that there are other old churches out there who had the same racist agenda and have never really publicly denounced that sin. So it still creeps in.

 

[Crazy Liz]

The mere existence of a "Black Baptist denomination" suggests some degree of racial segregation, no?

Exactly what I was thinking as I read that remark.

What other US churches have separate denominations for white and black? The only non-Baptist African-American denominations I am aware of are the AME and AME Zion. There may also be some Pentecostal denominations that are segregated. I remember reading that the Azusa Street revival scandalized many Christians of the time not just because of speaking in Tongues and other unusual manifestations, but also because it was racially integrated, so I do recall racism being an issue at least at the beginning of the Pentecostal movement.

Today there is a lot of controversy about whether it is better for congregations to be ethnically and socioeconomically diverse or homogeneous, but I have never heard any discussion about whole denominations being homogeneous. One of the purposes of denominations is to bring together people who are diverse geographically, ethnically and socioeconomically into a unity that extends beyond their local congregation. Yet I think the the SBC has a history that at one time was very tied up with racism. I'm sure that is a hard thing to overcome.

 

[seebs]

A friend of mine once attended a church in Pennsylvania. During the part of the service with announcements of Bingo night and the like, there was a side mention that some black people who had been attending the church had asked to enroll their children in Sunday School and had been told that maybe it was time for them to find a denomination more suitable to their kind of people. My friend looked around in horror, as everyone smiled and nodded.

I am pretty sure this wasn't a Baptist church, but I could be wrong. So... Segregation is hardly unique.

Actually, there's an interesting question about the segregation thing. Almost from the dawn of their existence, Quaker groups had separate men's and women's "meetings for business". Why? Because women, in the rest of society, were not allowed to make decisions or practice such skills. At the time, giving women authority of any sort was a very radical thing. By around 1900, it became clear that the separation was not useful, and they started having men and women attend the same "meeting for business".

So... In a way, the black churches may well represent the first people deciding to go ahead and try to convert black people, even though this could potentially curtail further use of them as slaves, as some faiths taught limits on the enslavement of Christians. But, as time moves on, they start seeming like barriers.

If the other option is "Black people may not go to church", then having a black church is indeed a very welcoming, affirming, and anti-segregational choice. If the other option is "we have churches for everybody", it starts looking questionable.

 

[TwinCrier]

At my church in NC there was a black family that called ahead to make sure it was okay for them to attend (it was!). It think some baptist deniminations take the separation issue to apply to race. Sometimes those who proclaim to be 'separtists' are not even talking about race at all. There isn't any biblical basis for it, I mean, look what happened to Mariam when she disapproved of her brother moses being married to a black woman.

 

[FreeinChrist]

The mere existence of a "Black Baptist denomination" suggests some degree of racial segregation, no?

Simply a result of history.

The SBC church I attended in Michigan was very involved in mission projects with inner city Baptist churches in Detroit.that were predominantly black. We worked together, worshipped together alot, and socialized. How racist is that?

That church in Michigan had members that were black and middle eastern, and asiatic, too The Baptist church I attended in Arizona also was mixed - not all European white.

The nondenom I attend now (with Baptist theology) is very multiethnic, multiracial.....not rascist.

 

[TheTempleTeam]

Oh For Goodness Sake, that's disgusting. Racism is absolutly foul! We're all human. When are people going to accept that.

I can't believe you actually have denominations within denominations for people of different colours.

Let's really work to stomp out racism in the church, it's disgusting!

 

[leah-bygrace]

I live in Tallahasee where my boyfriend's father is a Southern Baptist preacher. They moved around a lot when he was a child, while his father pastored different churches and my bf has told me about times that his father would have to preach a sermon about how racism was wrong and how no church that he was pastoring would be racist. Once someone even posted KKK meeting notices (in the 80's) and his father had to run around the church grounds tearing them down.

I don't think it's necessarily the denomination that breeds the racism, but rather the members. There are nondenominational churches here that are just as racist (believe me, I know). Tallahassee is considered part of the "bible belt" and there are still some ignorant people around here who have never been exposed to diversity.

I also think that maybe the "separation" of Baptist churches doesn't really have to do with race, but rather style. For instance, I know that our church sings all hymns (which I dislike), while african-american baptist churches sing gospel.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Oh For Goodness Sake, that's disgusting. Racism is absolutly foul! We're all human. When are people going to accept that.

I can't believe you actually have denominations within denominations for people of different colours.

Let's really work to stomp out racism in the church, it's disgusting!

It is not "denominations within denominations" - you are showing a lack of understanding regarding Baptists.

Historically, Baptists formed associations primarily for the purpose of joint missions and evangelism. The conventions that formed are a result of that.

 

[TheTempleTeam]

So why do they have to be seperated by race? Apologies for my mis-understanding. I go to a baptist church, but it's different here in Scotland.

 

[TexasCatholic]

The Black Baptist Conventions were formed voluntarily by individuals. Any "segregation" you may wish to place on that should be placed on the individuals who started those organizations.

Other conventions, i.e. the Southern Baptist Convention, is not specifically oriented with any race. The Hispanic churches I spoke of are part of the SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION, and speak primarily Spanish in church services.

If Black Christians feel more comfortable creating churches predominately of people of their own culture, I don't have a problem with that.

I think that's what people miss out on, really. They associate it with race-only, when it's more about culture. You want to worship with people who appreciate a similar worship style. Black culture, Hispanic culture, Anglo culture, they have different worship styles that are customary, and they would naturally form churches consisting of people who have this in common. It's not about race. A Black Baptist group isn't segregation, it's their freedom to express and organize within their own culture of worship.

BTW, I've seen plenty of people of black and hispanic origins in a regular ol' SBC church, and I've not seen racism against them. Some people are comfortable in a standard SBC-style church. Others may prefer the style and cultural differences in churches consisting mostly of people with similar backgrounds.

This is a concept, IMO, that Catholics don't understand, since every Catholic church has the same basic rituals and routines, and very little interaction between the people and the actual worship service. On the other hand, in a Baptist or mostly any Protestant denomination, the people are a big part of the Worship Service, including the music, the actual sermon (yes, there's "feedback"!), and the extensive outside-of-worship-services fellowship that takes place. It isn't just a place we go to take communion, then go back to our lives. It's a PART of our lives. WE are THE CHURCH. Not the building, not the organization. We don't all have to fit into a cookie cutter of any organization. Our rule book is The Bible.

-James