Baptists and "once saved, always saved"

[Spirit of Pentecost]

Although I now attend a Oneness Pentecostal church, I was raised primarily in Baptist churches and I have always wondered about the Baptists at their teachings on "once saved, always saved".

I'm not meaning to be offensive here or mock anyone's belief, but I just have some questions surrounding this theory. Has this always been a part of the Baptist doctrine? Are there some branches of the Baptist denomination that don't believe this way? If so, why do they consider themselves Baptist?

I recall attending a Full Gospel Baptist church for roughly three years, and to the best of my recollection, they did not believe in the "once saved, always saved" teaching. How do the Southern Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Holiness Baptists, etc. fell about it? Do they share or not share the belief?

I know almost all of the other denominations, such as Pentecostals, Methodists, Nazarenes, and others, do not share this belief.

Again, I'm just curious as to where the Baptists get this from... What Biblical scripture leads them to this decision? And do all branches of the Baptist church agree with this?

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-15

That's the scripture I base my view on not being able lose your salvation, i'm sure some others here will be more helpful in answering this than I have been...

 

[Goodbook]

Not that I know of..ive been attending a baptist church for five years and never has the preachers ever mentioned this slogan which isnt in the bible.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

Not that I know of..ive been attending a baptist church for five years and never has the preachers ever mentioned this slogan which isnt in the bible.

To the best of my knowledge, I didn't think it was, either. However, I do know of some Baptists that believe and preach this, and I was just wondering if there was anywhere they got this specifically.

 

[SkyWriting]

Although I now attend a Oneness Pentecostal church, I was raised primarily in Baptist churches and I have always wondered about the Baptists at their teachings on "once saved, always saved".

I'm not meaning to be offensive here or mock anyone's belief, but I just have some questions surrounding this theory. Has this always been a part of the Baptist doctrine? Are there some branches of the Baptist denomination that don't believe this way? If so, why do they consider themselves Baptist?

I recall attending a Full Gospel Baptist church for roughly three years, and to the best of my recollection, they did not believe in the "once saved, always saved" teaching. How do the Southern Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Holiness Baptists, etc. fell about it? Do they share or not share the belief?

I know almost all of the other denominations, such as Pentecostals, Methodists, Nazarenes, and others, do not share this belief.

Again, I'm just curious as to where the Baptists get this from... What Biblical scripture leads them to this decision? And do all branches of the Baptist church agree with this?

People will categorize themselves as they see fit.
Good luck changing their choices.

 

[Geralt]

no issue with 'once saved, always saved'. it all boils down in your view of who God is, if He is a passive observer or proactive in the life of the 'true believer'.

no issue either with falling away.the epistles show a lot of problems like these. same also today, esp with the 'decisional regeneration' syndrome adopted by many churches.

the issue is with the presumption that 'true believers' can fall away. NOT in the falling away, but in the question whether they were at all 'true believers'. pentecostal and arminians are on the same boat, they conclude without proof (but just quoting warnings and exhorations with an added script of imagination) that those who fall are 'true believers'. they really dont have anything to show in scripture, just sweeping statement conclusions.

those who are in the 'reformed' baptist leaning, simply quotes 1 John 2:19 (which pentecostals and arminians and other performance based salvation sects would not want to be quoted, much like they dont want Romans 9 preached).

if you lost it, you never had it. if you had it, you never lose it.
if you lost it, you never were; if you have it, you truly are.
onced saved (by God), always (guaranteed) saved by God.
once saved (by God) and lost, is saved by a fictional god.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30
​

Although I now attend a Oneness Pentecostal church, I was raised primarily in Baptist churches and I have always wondered about the Baptists at their teachings on "once saved, always saved".

I'm not meaning to be offensive here or mock anyone's belief, but I just have some questions surrounding this theory. Has this always been a part of the Baptist doctrine? Are there some branches of the Baptist denomination that don't believe this way? If so, why do they consider themselves Baptist?

I recall attending a Full Gospel Baptist church for roughly three years, and to the best of my recollection, they did not believe in the "once saved, always saved" teaching. How do the Southern Baptists, Free Will Baptists, Holiness Baptists, etc. fell about it? Do they share or not share the belief?

I know almost all of the other denominations, such as Pentecostals, Methodists, Nazarenes, and others, do not share this belief.

Again, I'm just curious as to where the Baptists get this from... What Biblical scripture leads them to this decision? And do all branches of the Baptist church agree with this?

 

[TaylorSexton]

In my opinion, "Once Saved, Always Saved" (henceforth OSAS) is a very different doctrine from Perseverance of the Saints. One need only to read, for example, the London Baptist Confession of Faith, Ch. XVII, Paragraph 3 (see the link in my signature) to see the difference. OSAS has antinomian overtones to it, even in the very nomenclature. In my experience, people who believe in OSAS (as opposed to Perseverance of the Saints) believe that once someone has made some sort of a profession of faith, they are secure no matter their behavior or disposition, which is hardly the nuanced doctrine Perseverance of the Saints is.

 

[twin1954]

In my opinion, "Once Saved, Always Saved" (henceforth OSAS) is a very different doctrine from Perseverance of the Saints. One need only to read, for example, the London Baptist Confession of Faith, Ch. XVII, Paragraph 3 (see the link in my signature) to see the difference. OSAS has antinomian overtones to it, even in the very nomenclature. In my experience, people who believe in OSAS (as opposed to Perseverance of the Saints) believe that once someone has made some sort of a profession of faith, they are secure no matter their behavior or disposition, which is hardly the nuanced doctrine Perseverance of the Saints is.

We who are believers are kept by the power of God, 1Pet. 1:5, and while we may fall and even stray for a while we are always brought back to the sheepfold.

Perseverance of the saints is a biblical truth that simply cannot be denied.

Now OSAS is a different matter altogether. I remember once when I lived in Fla. driving home from work on a very hot afternoon and not having air I had my windows down. We were stuck in traffic and a young woman beside me was talking to another young lady behind her that she apparently knew and they were talking about how many bars they had been to that weekend and how drunk they had gotten. I reached through my window to give the one beside me a tract and she looked at it as said," Oh I am saved. I accepted Christ when I was 7."

That is OSAS. It is a heresy and has no basis in the Bible.

 

[farout]

We who are believers are kept by the power of God, 1Pet. 1:5, and while we may fall and even stray for a while we are always brought back to the sheepfold.

Perseverance of the saints is a biblical truth that simply cannot be denied.

Now OSAS is a different matter altogether. I remember once when I lived in Fla. driving home from work on a very hot afternoon and not having air I had my windows down. We were stuck in traffic and a young woman beside me was talking to another young lady behind her that she apparently knew and they were talking about how many bars they had been to that weekend and how drunk they had gotten. I reached through my window to give the one beside me a tract and she looked at it as said," Oh I am saved. I accepted Christ when I was 7."

That is OSAS. It is a heresy and has no basis in the Bible.

I think there is a huge misconception on the subject of "Eternal Security" and "osas". Jesus clearly taught that genuine believers are Followers. That indicates the person is continually striving to walk with Jesus. That does not mean as like Paul said in Romans 7 that the things I want to do, are the things I don't do. Our human "OSN" Old Sinful nature is always with me, as long as I reside here. Genuine Followers of Jesus are secure in the Fathers hand, Jesus told us that.

The huge mistake is people say a prayer after some person and that gives them the "false security" that they are saved. That is a real problem especially for those during those times when the Spiritual Laws were used wrongly. Without discipleship Satan has his demons scarf up those who were seekers but mot fully commited to Jesus Christ.

I think there is a huge misunderstanding in Justification and Sanctification. Remember you can not be tried before the Father for the same sin's but once. I see people asking for forgiveness many times for sins that they are ready confessed. Sadly those who believe you can not be eternally secure have brought doubts into the minds of genuine Followers. There has to be a correct understanding of what "Eternally Secure" really means, and quit this constant bickering over if a person can lose their position in Christ.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I grew up Southern Baptist. I don't attend that denomination at the moment, but it's a matter of geography, not theology. My convictions haven't changed seriously since then.

SoBaps derive from a chain of events descending from Calvinism and the prior understanding of St. Augustine. So yes, in the main SoBaps - at least - hold to the Eternal Security of the Believer, as I remember the term. Among other things, it is based on the words of Jesus recorded in John 10:22 to 30, and the comments in First Corinthians regarding being "... bought with a price" in a discussion of salvation. I hold to that position as it holds the most water in the argument. I believe it has been constant ever since the denomination existed, but I may be mistaken.

I have not taken a survey or poll of all 'Baptist' groups, so I really don't know. My understanding is the "Free Will Baptists" follow the Arminian school of thought and therefore have a less permanent view of salvation. And, just for the record, to my knowledge no one is expelled for holding either view.

The term "Once Saved, Always Saved" seems to be a bit derogatory. The argument against the Eternal Security is it serves as a 'license to sin' without fear. In practice, this doesn't seem to occur much. Nothing in the doctrine of Eternal Security prevents God from correcting or chastising His followers. In fact, Hebrews 12:6 says it will happen.

There are those who disagree with the SoBap and my personal thoughts, of course.

 

[twin1954]

I grew up Southern Baptist. I don't attend that denomination at the moment, but it's a matter of geography, not theology. My convictions haven't changed seriously since then.

SoBaps derive from a chain of events descending from Calvinism and the prior understanding of St. Augustine. So yes, in the main SoBaps - at least - hold to the Eternal Security of the Believer, as I remember the term. Among other things, it is based on the words of Jesus recorded in John 10:22 to 30, and the comments in First Corinthians regarding being "... bought with a price" in a discussion of salvation. I hold to that position as it holds the most water in the argument. I believe it has been constant ever since the denomination existed, but I may be mistaken.

I have not taken a survey or poll of all 'Baptist' groups, so I really don't know. My understanding is the "Free Will Baptists" follow the Arminian school of thought and therefore have a less permanent view of salvation. And, just for the record, to my knowledge no one is expelled for holding either view.

The term "Once Saved, Always Saved" seems to be a bit derogatory. The argument against the Eternal Security is it serves as a 'license to sin' without fear. In practice, this doesn't seem to occur much. Nothing in the doctrine of Eternal Security prevents God from correcting or chastising His followers. In fact, Hebrews 12:6 says it will happen.

There are those who disagree with the SoBap and my personal thoughts, of course.

"Easy Believism" and OSAS was at the root of the "Lordship Controversy" back in the 70's and 80's that made John MacArthur popular. He wrote and preached against those things. He now has turned it into a subtle legalism by which he judges other's salvation.

While I agree that if the Lord Jesus is your Savior He is your Lord I do not agree with MacArthur's stance.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

"Easy Believism" and OSAS was at the root of the "Lordship Controversy" back in the 70's and 80's that made John MacArthur popular. He wrote and preached against those things. He now has turned it into a subtle legalism by which he judges other's salvation.

I attended a Southern Baptist congregation from my birth in 1950 ('cradle roll' actually at the early part) until 2004. I can think of nine different congregations in as many different cities.

I never once heard 'easy believism' taught, preached, advocated or talked about in a positive manner. Never. The agreement of salvation always included the Lordship of Jesus, never a partial deal. I have no idea where you heard that statement, but it does not line up with my experience.

While I agree that if the Lord Jesus is your Savior He is your Lord I do not agree with MacArthur's stance.

I'm not crazy about MacArthur either. When I hear him - he comes on the local Bott Radio network where I live - he always strikes me as works oriented and as you say, legalistic.

Just because, I want to share something with you. Luke 7:40 to 43 as follows:
7:40 So Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” He replied, “Say it, Teacher.” 7:41 “A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed him five hundred silver coins, and the other fifty. 7:42 When they could not pay, he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?” 7:43 Simon answered, “I supposethe one who had the bigger debt canceled.” Jesus said to him, “You have judged rightly.”

Most everyone who hears that parable agrees with Jesus; more forgiven equals more love. Except for those who deny the Eternal Security of the believer. They all seem to think more forgiven equals more tendency to sin.

I find that odd.

 

[Goodbook]

When i heard of the phrase it tends to be out of books written by american christian preachers (who are often affiliated with baptist churches) from the 1970s it doesnt Actually have anything to do with core baptist beliefs. Its just a lazy slogan.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

When i heard of the phrase it tends to be out of books written by american christian preachers (who are often affiliated with baptist churches) from the 1970s it doesnt Actually have anything to do with core baptist beliefs. Its just a lazy slogan.

I honestly cannot remember when I first hear the "OSAS" motto. I agree it's a lazy slogan.

 

[2win]

Well, the best thing I can think of saying about OSAS IU S; It is "very" true!

 

[2win]

Sorry, that "IU S " was added by mistake.

 

[farout]

I honestly cannot remember when I first hear the "OSAS" motto. I agree it's a lazy slogan.

Taken out of context by people who are not using a term used in Scripture. No where is OSAS mentioned in the Bible. Your right, I think people who might have been somewhere as a child or teenager raised their hand in wanting Jesus to save them. They went down the isle and said a prayer and that settled it for ever. That's what I think many think is OSAS.

Real genuine, "born again", "saved", "Eternally secured" are terms used in the Bible. Those people who really see that they are sinners, and their sinful life is going in the wrong direction, and they are born with a sinful nature, they know something is deeply wrong inside themselves. When a person becomes aware of their lost condition, and without Jesus Christ in their life they will die lost. With the Holy Spirits pleading, urging, to make them aware of the fear death without Jesus Christ, their lost condition means Hell awaits those who deny Jesus as their Lord. With the Holy Spirits making them aware of their sinful life He pleads that person will confess their sins and sinful life, and ask Jesus save them.

After confessing the sins, and making their choice to be a Follower of Jesus Christ are now ready to publically confess before man their choice to be Follower of Jesus and do so by being Baptized. That person has been Justified and now is being Sanctified by now Following Jesus and His Commands which is Discipleship. We are being disciple the rest od our life, by the study of the Bible, Prayer, involvement in a Bible believing Church, witnessing, and living by the Word. Our life in Christ is not sin free, and we live by 1 john 1:9.

A Follower of Jesus Christ such as stated as above according to what Jesus said in John 10:27-30 have "eternal life" "will never perish". "no one will snatch then out od my hand" and "no one is able to snatch them out of my Fathers hand". Now if that is not being always saved, them please tell me what this means.

 

[2win]

I will agree; raising your hand, and saying; "Yes I believe in Jesus!" at an alter call never saved anyone; Saying a prayer after a minister never saved anyone, being baptized with water never saved anyone; and no, being saved doesn't give anyone a license to do whatever makes the body feel good. 2Corinthians 5:17 very well tells what takes place in a person's life when they get saved; you cannot earn salvation, and you cannot loose it; you can explain that in several different ways; but it still comes out; "OSAS"; TO believe you can loose your salvation is calling Jesus a liar the way I see it.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

... saying; "Yes I believe in Jesus!" at an alter call ... Saying a prayer after a minister... being baptized ... never saved anyone...

You said the secret word and win the prize.

What is sometimes known - and often scorned - as "The sinner's prayer" is NOT a magic spell to get God to like one or redeem one. (Some religions have magic spells for various things, Christianity - even Baptists - do not.) The rough outline of the 'sinner's prayer' is the outline of what is involved in the oral contract involving Salvation. Yes, I said contract.

A contract is a legally binding agreement between two or more parties. A contract specifies the conditions and obligations of all parties. A contract is either written or oral, but requires the two or more parties to willingly agree to the stipulations. Of note, a 'covenant' is another (somewhat obsolete) word (in English) for contract. The word 'testament' when used in the context of the Bible has the same meaning. (It has changed a bit since the translation of the Wycliffe and subsequent King James translations.)

The 'contract' of Salvation specifies - at minimum -
1. the sinner to repent of sin and pledge allegiance and loyalty to God.
2. God will remove the penalty of eternal death from the sinner - transferring that 'obligation' to Jesus, and
3. God will remake the sinner into what the sinner should have been had sin never affected the sinner.

If both parties agree freely to the conditions, the contract of Salvation is made. God obviously agreed already and continues to agree. The sinner in question must do so also. That makes a contract, and that occasions Salvation.

For those who don't like the term 'contract', too bad. That's the deal.

Once again, a mere reciting of a script without intentional and willing consent or intent is NOT effective.

...and no, being saved doesn't give anyone a license to do whatever makes the body feel good.

Correct also. The one forgiven much loves much. As described in the gospel accounts of the woman of ill repute who washed Jesus's feet at the Pharisee's house in Luke 7.

 

[farout]

I will agree; raising your hand, and saying; "Yes I believe in Jesus!" at an alter call never saved anyone; Saying a prayer after a minister never saved anyone, being baptized with water never saved anyone; and no, being saved doesn't give anyone a license to do whatever makes the body feel good. 2Corinthians 5:17 very well tells what takes place in a person's life when they get saved; you cannot earn salvation, and you cannot loose it; you can explain that in several different ways; but it still comes out; "OSAS"; TO believe you can loose your salvation is calling Jesus a liar the way I see it.

Totally agree with you!!!!!!!