Baptist Conf of Faith section 19 and Westminster Conf of Faith sectn 19

[BobRyan]

Since I keep referring to these documents in my signature line.... a thread to look at the topic.

Hello Bob.

On the subject of the ten commandments. At the end of your posts you cite the following sources.

BobRyan said;
"I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.
The Baptist Confession of Faith"

Hello David.

Thank you for noticing that. You will find it in section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith".

Also section 19 of the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

They affirm that the "TEN Commandments" are included in the "moral law of God" AND are included in that law written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. All TEN.

Even though you have a reference to the Baptist Confession, the Baptist Confession does not support the seventh day Sabbath.

My quote above says "all TEN of the TEN Commandments"... so then you need to "Quote me" if your intent is to evaluate something "I said" and not something "you said".

I think we can all see that point.

Please read the paragraph below from the Baptist Confession, you may want to reconsider your post.

The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Section 19

19. The Law of God

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.
   
   
2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.
   
   
3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.
   
   
   
4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.
   
   
   
5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.
   
   
   
6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.
   
   
   
7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=================================

If your sudden attention to detail regarding the Confession of Faith above means you are no longer at war with its basic statements... I for one am glad that you have turned that corner. Welcome to the light.

Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" that you speak of --

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points. Some of which are the very points you have been so strongly at war against in your prior posts.

(As I have pointed out many many times to you in the past... and gladly do it again)

===============

Is it any wonder then that my signature line includes this --

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[BobRyan]

Chapter 22
7. As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished. ( Exodus 20:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10 )

Well Bob, the Baptists honor the first day of the week, do you recite this confession?

Section 22 (not section 19) is a place that some would focus on - when they find the "details" of section 19 to be "inconvenient".

1. It is no surprise that Baptists keep Sunday.. this is not "news" to any of us.
2. The details in Section 19 remain however as the stated position of the Baptist Confession of Faith - EVEN where it affirms Bible truths that you David -- do not wish to admit to.
3. The details of Section 22 show that the BCOF believes that the Sabbath was "edited/changed/re-pointed to week-day-1" after the cross.
4. They admit that a CHANGE in the commandment had to have taken place for the claim that the SABBATH is now week-day-1 instead of "the Seventh day" of Ex 20:10 -- the Sabbath of "The Lord"


So then AFTER admitting
"As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week"


Section 22

1. They use the term "last day of the week" as a convenient euphemism for "SEVENTH day" because they know full well that the Bible says "the SEVENTH day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)".

2. They admit it is part of the moral law - and binding on all mankind.
3. They admit that it is a day devoted to worship of God.
4. They admit that as God gave it -- it is the SEVENTH day of the week - not the first day

The BCOF section 22 points to a CHANGE in the TEN Commandments.

"from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath,"

1. Changed to the "first day"
2. Called the "Christian Sabbath"

==========================

And yet as we see in the book of Acts - the term "SABBATH" even when referencing Jewish and gentile believers listening to Paul giving Gospel messages Sabbath after Sabbath -- in Acts 18:4 -- the term STILL refers to the SEVENTH day.

 

[BobRyan]

Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[4] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[5] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[6]

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[7]

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22]

 

[BobRyan]

I love this thread as well -- it shows that "details matter" for those trying to "spin" the topic as if "only Sabbath keeping Christians" would notice these "Bible details"

 

[BobRyan]

Sabbath keeping Christians get condemned for approving the same Bible details as listed above - "as if" only a Sabbath keeping Christian is allowed to notice that Bible detail.

how "instructive" for unbiased objective Bible students.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
And God the Holy Spirit is the author of scripture -- 2 Tim 3:16 , 2 Peter 1:20-21. No amount of attempting to pit God's Word against God - will ever survive the light of day."

So your claim is that God is *limited* by scripture then

Less creative writing - more attention to details in the discussion please.

My claim is that Jesus (the whole Trinity) is not limited by scripture

My claim is that God's Word can be trusted and those who choose "their own feelings" instead, may then go on to rely on sola-creative-writing or sola-emotional-statement since they "feel" that God's Word does not have as much value as "feelings".

The problem there is that Muslims and Hindus also have "feelings". Sola-feelings is in fact "shifting sand"

So you *do* believe that God is limited by scripture then.

So there a point where your creative writing in response to a post - has anything at all to do with the post you are responding to??

Scripture can indeed be trusted for the PURPOSES for which it was written.

Ahh yes that is true. And that purpose is "doctrine, correction and instruction in righteousness" 2 Tim 3:16

2 Timothy 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3:16 New King James Version (NKJV) 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

2 Timothy 3:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

The Mosaic law that includes the ten commandments was written for the purpose of a covenant ... Many have pointed out many specific verses to you and to other SDA,

And all of Christendom "knows better" than to go for that "creative writing"?
"not - just SDAs"

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 EVEN in the NT
"The LAW written on heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 IS the NEW Covenant in the OT and is UNCHANGED in the NT - Hebrew 8:6-12

That "moral law of God" includes ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments as we see in Eph 6:2 and as all of Christendom freely admits "not - just SDAs"

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[BobRyan]

Well considering that I never stated that only SDA's believe in the ten commandments, .

Scripture can indeed be trusted for the PURPOSES for which it was written. The Mosaic law that includes the ten commandments was written for the purpose of a covenant between God and the Israelites there in person at Sinai and *their* generations. The covenant was so that they would be able to remain in the land that God had promised them. ..

We have the Holy Spirit now for conviction of sin and the law that you keep trying to yoke people into is rendered obsolete. All of this is supported by scripture throughout the new testament. Many have pointed out many specific verses to you and to other SDA, but you either ignore it, claim we are lying or making things up, .

That's one of the many problems with creative writing - it is self conflicted

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[BobRyan]

Amazing how often this topic comes up on almost all the Sabbath threads.

 

[BobRyan]

Confessions of faith and sermons by D.L. Moody as well as other sources show that all TEN of the Ten Commandments were accepted as the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant