Baptism

[anna ~ grace]

So, this has likely been asked before, but....

Having been raised Lutheran, infant baptism was pretty much a given. No one ever questioned or doubted it, and we would have felt alien from anyone who rejected the baptism of infants. "Well, why not? That's what you're supposed to do with babies; baptize 'em! What else would one do?"

Years later, I came to faith in a Baptist setting, meaning that I actually realized that I needed Christ, not just that I needed to believe certain theologically correct things about Him. Of course the Baptists are essentially and uncompromisingly opposed to baptizing infants, though I've seen children who are little more than toddlers able to lisp "Jesus" sitting in baptismal preparation class. The argument of course is that one must first repent, then believe, then be baptized as Scripture commands. In that order. And that no clear instance of infant baptism is given in Scripture.

Now... I used to be hard core on that. I'm getting to the point where I've seen cases in which those baptized as infants grew into holy and joyful Christians, whereas others are now agnostics. I've also seen those baptized as adults turn out to be seemingly fruitful and mature, while some others seem to have virtually no interest in spiritual matters, and carry on as though unaware that sin is wrong.

What is the Orthodox view on baptism, what it accomplishes, why infant baptism is valid, and what the relationship is between baptism and salvation? Thank you so much for your time, and answers!

 

[anna ~ grace]

I have also read Baptist literature that describes infant baptism as a relatively late innovation, brought about as more and more paganism, heresy, and compromise confused the early Christian world.

Is this actually true?

How early on did Christians begin baptizing young children / infants, and how was this practice understood / defended theologically?

 

[ArmyMatt]

What is the Orthodox view on baptism, what it accomplishes,

the person dies to the sinful old Adam, and emerges a member of the Church clothed in Christ.

why infant baptism is valid

since Orthodox view the faith as more holistic and medicinal, it does not matter how much someone understands about the sacrament, any more than it matters if you understand how medicine heals you. what matters is that it does, and if it does, you wanna get on the medicine ASAP. so if infants are sick with sin (as we all are from conception), you wanna get them the healing ASAP.

what the relationship is between baptism and salvation?

baptism is the door to the Church, so that one can live the sacramental life which leads to salvation.

I have also read Baptist literature that describes infant baptism as a relatively late innovation, brought about as more and more paganism, heresy, and compromise confused the early Christian world.

Is this actually true?

How early on did Christians begin baptizing young children / infants, and how was this practice understood / defended theologically?

well, in Scripture it speaks of whole households being baptized, which would have included children. plus you have the Old Testament prototype of circumcision which was done to infants. in addition, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit and jumped while still in the womb of his mother.

 

[anna ~ grace]

the person dies to the sinful old Adam, and emerges a member of the Church clothed in Christ.



since Orthodox view the faith as more holistic and medicinal, it does not matter how much someone understands about the sacrament, any more than it matters if you understand how medicine heals you. what matters is that it does, and if it does, you wanna get on the medicine ASAP. so if infants are sick with sin (as we all are from conception), you wanna get them the healing ASAP.



baptism is the door to the Church, so that one can live the sacramental life which leads to salvation.



well, in Scripture it speaks of whole households being baptized, which would have included children. plus you have the Old Testament prototype of circumcision which was done to infants. in addition, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit and jumped while still in the womb of his mother.

Matt, thank you for your answer! A common Baptist argument is that infants and small children don't *need* baptism, as the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to ones like them, and that consequently infant baptism does not help the infant, nor cause Christian faith. What would the Orthodox response to this be?

 

[ArmyMatt]

My response is that their belief is not clear from Scripture (so it is more based on their speculation). And Church history has infant baptism from the earliest centuries. The problem for them is that the rejection of infant baptism is much more modern.

 

[anna ~ grace]

My response is that their belief is not clear from Scripture (so it is more based on their speculation). And Church history has infant baptism from the earliest centuries. The problem for them is that the rejection of infant baptism is much more modern.

Thanks, Sir. Do you know of any early Christian theologians who wrote about, elaborated on, or Scripturally explained infant Baptism?

 

[All4Christ]

Thanks, Sir. Do you know of any early Christian theologians who wrote about, elaborated on, or Scripturally explained infant Baptism?

St Hippolytus from 215AD wrote the following:

"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

St Irenaeus from 189 / 190

"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).


"‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5]" (Fragment34 [A.D. 190]).

http://www.churchfathers.org/category/sacraments/infant-baptism/

 

[anna ~ grace]

That is very helpful, thank you! So early Christians had no problem with this?

 

[anna ~ grace]

http://www.antiochian.org/content/infant-baptism-what-church-believes

Found the above article kind of helpful, and well-written. My thing is, if those baptized as young people, teenagers, or adults can later deny Christ, after having been baptized with at least some understanding of what is happening and why, it doesn't seem to make as much sense to take issue with infant baptism. Either soul can later walk away from Christ and choose the world / sin / selfishness. And if Christianity is more of a journey instead of a single conversion point or moment, and if salvation can be lost, infant baptism potentially makes about as much sense as adult baptism.

Not trying to argue theologically, just struggling to get things sorted out.

 

[All4Christ]

That is very helpful, thank you! So early Christians had no problem with this?

Glad to help

From everything I researched, no they didn't have a problem with it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

One thing I said to some Church visitors (Baptists, usually) to help them understand why we baptize infants (and I have read this a number of times in Orthodox writings) is this: if we consider baptism to be entry into the Church, into the community of faith, making one a full member of the Church, then why would we not want our infants and children to become fully a part of the family of faith?

Baptists should be able to understand at least from this point of view, since it is also entry into the church membership/community for them.

Think about it - why would we de-facto DENY being part of the Body of Christ to the little ones, when Christ Himself said the Kingdom belonged to "such as these"? Yes, they can later depart (God forbid), but as you rightly pointed out, so can those baptized as believing adults.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So early Christians had no problem with this?

nope they didn't. if you think about it, if John the Baptist as a baby in the womb can be moved by the Spirit, faith is not something that is merely an intellectual understanding. the soul and the brain are not the same thing.

And if Christianity is more of a journey instead of a single conversion point or moment, and if salvation can be lost, infant baptism potentially makes about as much sense as adult baptism.

right, since any of us can turn away, either as kids or adults, the point of baptism is to get someone baptized as soon as possible.

 

[All4Christ]

One difference is that we do not consider baptism to be just a symbol. It is regenerative, and we certainly want that for our young children, not just adults. Just as Jesus was presented to God at the temple as an infant, we give our children to God for regeneration and to be children of God.

As the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America states:

Christian baptism is the means whereby we encounter and identify with Jesus Christ Himself. This is one of the reasons why Paul explains baptism as the manner in which we genuinely "put on" or "clothe" ourselves with Christ (Galatians 3:27). This is not just a metaphor; the Lord actually transforms a person through his baptism.

Why would we withhold this from our children? We are a family and want to share this with our children as well. Also, with chrismation, we receive the seal of the Holy Spirit - the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - to help us unify with God. This is extremely important, even for infants.

This doesn't mean we can't leave the faith or stop following God. Each day we must choose Christ. However, through baptism, we die to our earthly body and are raised with new life in Christ.

 

[~Anastasia~]

One difference is that we do not consider baptism to be just a sin.

Errrrr ... Typo?



A big one, lol.

 

[All4Christ]

Errrrr ... Typo?

lol completely....We don't consider it to be just a symbol...not just a sin

 

[~Anastasia~]

lol completely

Thought I'd bring it to your attention, lol.

 

[All4Christ]

Thought I'd bring it to your attention, lol.

Appreciate it!!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Appreciate it!!

You're welcome. Gave me a chuckle too, and I can always use that. Thanks!

 

[anna ~ grace]

Why would we withhold this from our children? We are a family and want to share this with our children as well. Also, with chrismation, we receive the seal of the Holy Spirit - the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - to help us unify with God. This is extremely important, even for infants.

Ok, so, is it then believed that the infant is now in dwelt with the Holy Spirit? Out of curiosity, is it baptism and not personal faith or a conversion point which grants the Holy Spirit?

 

[All4Christ]

Ok, so, is it then believed that the infant is now in dwelt with the Holy Spirit? Out of curiosity, is it baptism and not personal faith or a conversion point which grants the Holy Spirit?

Did you ever notice in scripture the sequence of baptism, followed by the laying of hands for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Acts 19

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

Acts 8

14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 6

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will[a] do if God permits.

Note that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is through the laying of hands after baptism. That's not to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't work in others' lives - the Spirit blows where He wills - but it is the progression of baptism and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as shown in scripture.

That said, it is the chrismation - equivalent of the laying of hands - in which we receive the seal of the Holy Spirit, not baptism itself.

https://oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/worship/the-sacraments/chrismation


ETA: this was a hard one for me to understand, especially coming from a Pentecostal background. After studying scripture more (and reading the church fathers), however, it started to make sense.