baptism with water or holy spirit? or both?

[Phil W]

Show me one place where the Most High God, or the Word of God Himself say that baptism with water - unlike being born from a woman's bag of waters (i.e. the medical way). I am not being argumentative, but it would be good to find this and determine it through Law - and the only One(s) who can comment on the existence and relevance of Law is [the Word of] God Himself.

I would think that the Ethiopian eunuch or the twelve at Ephesus would clear up any misinformation regarding water baptism.

We should be careful of dogma; suggesting one needs to be baptized to be saved when the lot of the OT patriarchs and heroes, and someone literally next to the Son of Man on His dying day did not get baptized (and are saved) produces a problem in and of itself.

Many things that pertain to the NT are not in the OT...like rebirth and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The thief on the cross literally fulfilled Romans 6:3-6's baptism.
He was crucified with Christ, buried, and promised newness of life by the ultimate forgiver of sins.

 

[Kaon]

I would think that the Ethiopian eunuch or the twelve at Ephesus would clear up any misinformation regarding water baptism.



Many things that pertain to the NT are not in the OT...like rebirth and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
The thief on the cross literally fulfilled Romans 6:3-6's baptism.
He was crucified with Christ, buried, and promised newness of life by the ultimate forgiver of sins.

The Word of God is a Living Entity that came to this plane of existence as a Son of Man. He is the same as He was when everything was created no matter how we interpreted His words. If we find a place where something contradicts Him, it is our mistake (or the other party's mistake), not His.

Where does the Word of God Himself say that you must be baptized by water to be saved in the way John the Baptist baptized other humans? In John 3, the Word of God makes it clear to Nicodemus that you must be born of water and spirit to enter the Kingdom; in John 3:6 the Word of God makes clear what water represents. Compare them:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
​

This is why the thief was able to see Paradise; he was a human born of water - literally the bag of waters in which you incubate in the womb. That is the birth of water. He was birthed of spirit when He confessed that the Son of Man was the Redeemer of Man, and He believed everything about Him. "Pentecost" happened for the thief right then, because the Word of God was right there.

 

[Phil W]

The Word of God is a Living Entity that came to this plane of existence as a Son of Man. He is the same as He was when everything was created no matter how we interpreted His words. If we find a place where something contradicts Him, it is our mistake (or the other party's mistake), not His.

With that kind of question, you make it clear that you don't believe that the writer of Acts is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
If Philip and Paul water baptized men, as did Peter at Cornelius's home, your insistence that only Jesus' spoken words are sufficient for eternal life exclude you from the faith.

Where does the Word of God Himself say that you must be baptized by water to be saved in the way John the Baptist baptized other humans?

As the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a gift from God, the only other baptism we can accomplish, as per Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19, is water baptism.

This is why the thief was able to see Paradise; he was a human born of water - literally the bag of waters in which you incubate in the womb. That is the birth of water. He was birthed of spirit when He confessed that the Son of Man was the Redeemer of Man, and He believed everything about Him. "Pentecost" happened for the thief right then, because the Word of God was right there.

Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins.
What would be washed away at water baptism if he was already sinless?
The thief's experience mirrors our own at Romans 6:3-6's water baptism.
Death, burial, and resurrection with Christ.

 

[Kaon]

With that kind of question, you make it clear that you don't believe that the writer of Acts is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
If Philip and Paul water baptized men, as did Peter at Cornelius's home, your insistence that only Jesus' spoken words are sufficient for eternal life exclude you from the faith.


As the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a gift from God, the only other baptism we can accomplish, as per Mark 16:16 and Matt 28:19, is water baptism.


Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins.
What would be washed away at water baptism if he was already sinless?
The thief's experience mirrors our own at Romans 6:3-6's water baptism.
Death, burial, and resurrection with Christ.

Ok.

 

[Andrewn]

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

This is why the thief was able to see Paradise; he was a human born of water - literally the bag of waters in which you incubate in the womb. That is the birth of water.

This is an interesting interpretation: In order to be saved one must be born of a woman. Stillbirths and miscarriages cannot be saved. Angels cannot go to heaven, etc.

I don't think this is what the Lord meant. I think He was talking here about water Baptism / Immersion exactly as in Mat 28:19 and Mar 16:16.