Baptism of Tears/Holy Spirit

[All4Christ]

Lately I've been reading a lot about the Charisma in the Orthodox Church. I read that St. Symeon, the New Theologian wrote "When someone suddenly lifts up his gaze and contemplates the nature of existing things in a way that he had never done before, then he is filled with amazement and sheds spontaneous tears without any sense of anguish. These tears purify him and wash him in a second baptism, that baptism of which our Lord speaks in the Gospels when He says, 'if someone is not born through water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.' Again He says, 'if someone is not born from above' (cf. John 3:5,7). When he said 'from above', He signified being born from the Spirit......The second baptism is no longer a type of the truth, but it is the truth itself.'

Is this typical of the Eastern Orthodox/and or Greek Orthodox church? I'm not Orthodox (I'm Pentecostal at this time) but I am very interested in learning about the Orthodox Church.

 

[Hoonbaba]

Hi All4Christ,

I wish I can give you a good response but I don't really know much about St. Symeon other the fact that he's a big time 'charismatic' =P

Here's a few links that might be useful for you:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/139/53.0.html
http://www.stsymeon.org/BooksAudioVideo.html

 

[Gideon4God]

I think the Russian Orthodox Church has a Tradition of "yurodiviy" or fool for Christ. I'm not sure these "Holy Fools" share in the gift of tears but it may offer another topic to search.

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7080.asp

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/holy_spirit.htm

 

Hope this helps,

Gideon

 

[Karpousi]

This is an explanation of the The Baptismal Font. A key element of the Orthodox service.

-----------------------------------
The baptismal font in the language of the Church Fathers is the Divine Womb whence we receive the second birth as children of God. Baptism is truly a birth.

"But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).
When a person is Baptised, they descend into the baptismal font. As the water closes over the head, it is like being buried in a grave. When the newly baptised emerges from the water, it is like rising from the grave. Baptism represents our old, sinful nature dying and then being resurrected again by Christ in a new and cleansed form. As St. Paul says, "Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death. We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father we, too, might walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:3-4).

from:
http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/Baptism.htm

 

[CopticOrthodox]

I believe the normal understanding of "of water and the Spirit" is the two Sacraments of Baptism, and Confirmation, which Orthodox receive together, as is the ancient practice. When reading the Fathers it's a good idea to keep in mind that sometimes we shouldn't take one quote apart from the rest and read it as we'd normally read stuff. A lot of the fathers would sometimes go to extremes to make a point, eg. today salvation is by fasting, the next day it's by repentance, the next day it's by Communion, the next by Baptism... It's not that they were contridicting themselves or changing their minds, it's just a style of writting that's not much used today where you go to an extreme to make a point, trusting that your listeners/readers have some background knowledge and that that's not all they're going to take. I don't know if that's the case here, I don't know much about this saint.

 

[brewmama]

It seems funny to think of St. Symian as a "charismatic". One understanding I have (though I'm not well versed on the subject at all) is that the filioque subordinated the Holy Spirit, so that an eventual revival in the Holy Spirit, as in charismatic, seemed necessary to some in the West. The East had never let go of it though, and this revival was not necessary.