Baptism of Repentance

[Standing Up]

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Vines--"afterthought, change of mind, repentance," corresponds in meaning to A, No. 1, and is used of "repentance" from sin or evil,

Of what was to be repented?

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Was this baptism of repentance to anyone else?

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[watchman333]

Hi Standing up. No, John would have only been preaching to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was a Levite, no one else would be invited but the Jewish children.

 

[98cwitr]

"Of what was to be repented?"

Past and present sin against God and man

"Was this baptism of repentance to anyone else?"

Not until Pentacost, at this time, the Baptism was only preached to Israel.

 

[Johnnz]

If you look up the OT quotes in the narrative about John you will find they refer mainly to the promises of a coming Messiah who would deliver Israel. Repentance in that context meant two things: Give up on your religious views of your Messiah (only for the Jewish nation, restoring Israel to international dominance) and your half hearted obedience to Torah (loving God whole heartedly, care for justice and the poor). It was a call to adjust their vision and their devotion.

John
NZ

 

[ViaCrucis]

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Vines--"afterthought, change of mind, repentance," corresponds in meaning to A, No. 1, and is used of "repentance" from sin or evil,

Of what was to be repented?

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Was this baptism of repentance to anyone else?

Thoughts? Comments?

St. John the Baptist's baptism was prophetic in nature, it was a prophetic call to repentance, of renewal, in preparation for the coming of Messiah. It was, in a sense, a special sort of mikveh.

After He came, St. John's ministry decreased until he was put to death, and then at the end of our Lord's ministry He instituted His Baptism, which wasn't one of repentance, but for the remission of sin.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[New_Wineskin]

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Vines--"afterthought, change of mind, repentance," corresponds in meaning to A, No. 1, and is used of "repentance" from sin or evil,

Of what was to be repented?

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Was this baptism of repentance to anyone else?

Thoughts? Comments?

It is a Jewish ritual proclaiming that they have repented and have been forgiven by the Lord . The baptism is a symbolic show of being buried and risen from the dead - rebirth .

It is all about repentance and receiving forgiveness .

 

[ViaCrucis]

It is a Jewish ritual proclaiming that they have repented and have been forgiven by the Lord . The baptism is a symbolic show of being buried and risen from the dead - rebirth .

It is all about repentance and receiving forgiveness .

John's baptism had nothing to do with burial/resurrection. That is Christian Baptism, which St. Paul elaborates on in Romans 6.

The Jewish mikveh is about ritual purity, and it is in this context that John's baptism is meaningful. While Christian Baptism isn't without the mikveh as precedent, it is a new institution, a Sacrament, proclaimed by Christ, for the duration of all history.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Rick Otto]

Matt3;1: In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,2: And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

 

[sunlover1]

Hi Standing up. No, John would have only been preaching to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was a Levite, no one else would be invited but the Jewish children.

This is how I understand it too.
Can't wait to hear all of your thoughts.

 

[Frogster]

peter said it was the same thing for gentiles in Acts 10. he called the acts 10 event the gospel in Acts 15, talking about this, and in 15 it was inclusive for jew and gentile.


Acts 10:37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

gentiles were in the same water baptism


47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

 

[sunlover1]

peter said it was the same thing for gentiles in Acts 10. he called the acts 10 event the gospel in Acts 15, talking about this, and in 15 it was inclusive for jew and gentile.


Acts 10:37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

gentiles were in the same water baptism


47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Hi Sup.
So then you believe that water baptism would be a mandate for those
who have received the Holy Spirit?
And if so, what of the infant baptism I received?
Thanks
Be black later

 

[Frogster]

Hi Sup.
So then you believe that water baptism would be a mandate for those
who have received the Holy Spirit?
And if so, what of the infant baptism I received?
Thanks
Be black later

good morning. I don't believe it's a mandate for the Spirit.

 

[Standing Up]

"Of what was to be repented?"

Past and present sin against God and man

But the Temple system of sacrifice was supposed to take care of that, right?

Why repent about that? It was ineffective, right?

If you look up the OT quotes in the narrative about John you will find they refer mainly to the promises of a coming Messiah who would deliver Israel. Repentance in that context meant two things: Give up on your religious views of your Messiah (only for the Jewish nation, restoring Israel to international dominance) and your half hearted obedience to Torah (loving God whole heartedly, care for justice and the poor). It was a call to adjust their vision and their devotion.

John
NZ

On the first point, did they have the idea of two Messianic comings? Maybe the scapegoat or doves or something? But they wanted to throw off Rome's dominance at the time of His first presence.

On the second, maybe so. But the system itself was broken, right? It was known as Herod's Temple.

So, the idea of a baptism of repentance was to change your mind about sin, messiah, torah? Is it fair to roll all of that into change your mind about the efficacy of the Law? John's baptism was "outside" the Levite system, right?

 

[Standing Up]

"Was this baptism of repentance to anyone else?"

Not until Pentacost, at this time, the Baptism was only preached to Israel.

If you look up the OT quotes in the narrative about John you will find they refer mainly to the promises of a coming Messiah who would deliver Israel. Repentance in that context meant two things: Give up on your religious views of your Messiah (only for the Jewish nation, restoring Israel to international dominance) and your half hearted obedience to Torah (loving God whole heartedly, care for justice and the poor). It was a call to adjust their vision and their devotion.

John
NZ

This is how I understand it too.
Can't wait to hear all of your thoughts.

Okay, so John's baptism of repentance was for Israel only.

At least until, Messiah's resurrection and pouring out of Spirit.

 

[Standing Up]

St. John the Baptist's baptism was prophetic in nature, it was a prophetic call to repentance, of renewal, in preparation for the coming of Messiah. It was, in a sense, a special sort of mikveh.

After He came, St. John's ministry decreased until he was put to death, and then at the end of our Lord's ministry He instituted His Baptism, which wasn't one of repentance, but for the remission of sin.

-CryptoLutheran

peter said it was the same thing for gentiles in Acts 10. he called the acts 10 event the gospel in Acts 15, talking about this, and in 15 it was inclusive for jew and gentile.


Acts 10:37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. 43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

gentiles were in the same water baptism


47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

Before moving into this, have we answered the baptism of repentance questions?

For Israel

Repent of what?

Temple/Levite system?
Messiah purpose?

Matt3;1: In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,2: And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
​

 

[Rick Otto]

Repent of the traditions that transgress the commandments of God?
(Matt15:3)

Mark7:9: And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your owntradition

...:13: Making the word of God of none effect through yourtradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[Johnnz]

But the Temple system of sacrifice was supposed to take care of that, right?
Why repent about that? It was ineffective, right?

It was the insincerity of their temple worship that was amiss. The prophets had already said that very clearly.

On the first point, did they have the idea of two Messianic comings? Maybe the scapegoat or doves or something? But they wanted to throw off Rome's dominance at the time of His first presence.

No, not two comings. That was the huge jump the apostles and Paul had to make. Their upbringing taught only one Messianic event leading to the glory of Israel when, God would come and judge the nations.

On the second, maybe so. But the system itself was broken, right? It was known as Herod's Temple.

The Jewish people had returned from exile, they had their temple, although without God's presence, but were not free in their own land. Rome ruled. That was soemthing they could not properly comprehend and were looking for Messiah, who like the Maccabeans earlier would free the nation from foreign control.

So, the idea of a baptism of repentance was to change your mind about sin, messiah, torah? Is it fair to roll all of that into change your mind about the efficacy of the Law? John's baptism was "outside" the Levite system, right?

The quotes from the OT were clearly to present Jesus as their hoped for Messiah. That entailed a renewed and true commitment to Torah (true righteousness) and abandoning their hopes of a political/military Messiah who would overthrow Rome. Instead here was the One coming who would conquer both sin and death for all of humanity.

John
NZ