Baptism necessary for Salvation

[dóxatotheó]

The Greek word for “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια, palinggenesia) appears only two times in the New Testament: Matthew 19:28 and Titus 3:5. In Matthew 19:28 “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια) refers to the renewal of creation at Christ’s second coming. This parallels Peter’s proclamation of the eschatological renewal of creation in Acts 3:21 and the promise of a new heaven and a new earth in Revelation 21:1.

The reference to “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια) in Titus 3:4-7 is of greater relevance to the question about baptismal regeneration. Paul writes:

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth (διὰ λουτροῦ παλιγγενεσίας) and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life

It must be rightfully understood that we are saved by grace - a free gift from God due to Christ's death on the cross (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8). We are not merely saved by accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior (Matt 7:21-23). Our faith in Christ, our acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior, our good works and our repentance of personal sins are the fruits of actual grace - God working through us but respecting our free will (Phil 2:12-13; John 15:5; 2 Cor 6:1). Through baptism we are born again which makes us right with God (1 Cor 6:11). Whether we are baptized as adults or our parents baptized us as infants, salvation is still a free gift - an inheritance (1Cor 6:9-10).

Whether adults or infants, we cannot accept Christ or even salvation without God's grace. However as adults we can freely reject God's grace and salvation through sin. Baptism does not earn or guarantee our salvation. Even though eternal life in Christ Jesus (salvation) is a free gift, we can still earn death (damnation) through serious, willful sin (Rom 6:23; Heb 10:26-27; 1 John 5:16-17; Gal 5:19-21; 1 Cor 6:9-10).
I Hold Baptism is necessary for salvation as the scriptures teach so (Mark 16:16 and Titus 3:5).


“Born Again” Experience or Baptismal Regeneration? – Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy

 

[Pavel Mosko]

As a Orthodox Sacramentalist you are going to find examples of belief before baptism in the Bible as well as Church history, and recent history with converts like myself. We might believe in infant baptism but it is not all we do.

 

[dóxatotheó]

you are going to find examples of belief before baptism in the Bible as well as Church history,

I agree I mean I dont hold that position Pavel haha.

We might believe in infant baptism but it is not all we do.

I agree I put infant baptism in to defend it aswell.

 

[rturner76]

Fig. 1 is correct. Your baptism is your entry into the Church.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Fig. 1 is correct. Your baptism is your entry into the Church.

Yes indeed

 

[d taylor]

​

When i hear or read of people saying that actions like baptism, repentance, confession, praying a prayer, obedience are required for receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life (salvation).

I have come to believe that they do not understand these stated words connected to Eternal Life: free, gift, God's grace, receive, believe. And misapply many verses to support their misunderstanding's

 

[dóxatotheó]

When i hear or read of people saying that actions like baptism, repentance, confession, praying a prayer, obedience are required for receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life (salvation).

I have come to believe that they do not understand these stated words connected to Eternal Life: free, gift, God's grace, receive, believe. And misapply many verses to support their misunderstanding's

I dont think you read the thread

 

[d taylor]

I dont think you read the thread

If you are talking about he link you posted no i did not as i have a old computer and the link will not open.

 

[dóxatotheó]

If you are talking about he link you posted no i did not as i have a old computer and the link will not open.

No the Thread everything you said I didnt argue for

 

[d taylor]

No the Thread everything you said I didnt argue for

Your topics headline is baptism necessary for salvation. If you noticed when i made my post (comment) i did not highlight your first post.

Because i was not addressing you, but for anyone who come to this topic (because of the headline) supporting the stated beliefs that many hold that they believe is required for salvation, baptism is really just one of many.

 

[HTacianas]

The Greek word for “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια, palinggenesia) appears only two times in the New Testament: Matthew 19:28 and Titus 3:5. In Matthew 19:28 “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια) refers to the renewal of creation at Christ’s second coming. This parallels Peter’s proclamation of the eschatological renewal of creation in Acts 3:21 and the promise of a new heaven and a new earth in Revelation 21:1.

The reference to “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια) in Titus 3:4-7 is of greater relevance to the question about baptismal regeneration. Paul writes:

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth (διὰ λουτροῦ παλιγγενεσίας) and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life
View attachment 308344
It must be rightfully understood that we are saved by grace - a free gift from God due to Christ's death on the cross (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8). We are not merely saved by accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior (Matt 7:21-23). Our faith in Christ, our acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior, our good works and our repentance of personal sins are the fruits of actual grace - God working through us but respecting our free will (Phil 2:12-13; John 15:5; 2 Cor 6:1). Through baptism we are born again which makes us right with God (1 Cor 6:11). Whether we are baptized as adults or our parents baptized us as infants, salvation is still a free gift - an inheritance (1Cor 6:9-10).

Whether adults or infants, we cannot accept Christ or even salvation without God's grace. However as adults we can freely reject God's grace and salvation through sin. Baptism does not earn or guarantee our salvation. Even though eternal life in Christ Jesus (salvation) is a free gift, we can still earn death (damnation) through serious, willful sin (Rom 6:23; Heb 10:26-27; 1 John 5:16-17; Gal 5:19-21; 1 Cor 6:9-10).
I Hold Baptism is necessary for salvation as the scriptures teach so (Mark 16:16 and Titus 3:5).


“Born Again” Experience or Baptismal Regeneration? – Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy

Jesus said, "he that believes and is baptized shall be saved".

If baptism wasn't necessary why would he -or anyone else for that matter- mention it?

 

[New Testament Christian]

The Greek word for “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια, palinggenesia) appears only two times in the New Testament: Matthew 19:28 and Titus 3:5. In Matthew 19:28 “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια) refers to the renewal of creation at Christ’s second coming. This parallels Peter’s proclamation of the eschatological renewal of creation in Acts 3:21 and the promise of a new heaven and a new earth in Revelation 21:1.

The reference to “regeneration” (παλιγγενεσια) in Titus 3:4-7 is of greater relevance to the question about baptismal regeneration. Paul writes:

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth (διὰ λουτροῦ παλιγγενεσίας) and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life
View attachment 308344
It must be rightfully understood that we are saved by grace - a free gift from God due to Christ's death on the cross (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8). We are not merely saved by accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior (Matt 7:21-23). Our faith in Christ, our acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior, our good works and our repentance of personal sins are the fruits of actual grace - God working through us but respecting our free will (Phil 2:12-13; John 15:5; 2 Cor 6:1). Through baptism we are born again which makes us right with God (1 Cor 6:11). Whether we are baptized as adults or our parents baptized us as infants, salvation is still a free gift - an inheritance (1Cor 6:9-10).

Whether adults or infants, we cannot accept Christ or even salvation without God's grace. However as adults we can freely reject God's grace and salvation through sin. Baptism does not earn or guarantee our salvation. Even though eternal life in Christ Jesus (salvation) is a free gift, we can still earn death (damnation) through serious, willful sin (Rom 6:23; Heb 10:26-27; 1 John 5:16-17; Gal 5:19-21; 1 Cor 6:9-10).
I Hold Baptism is necessary for salvation as the scriptures teach so (Mark 16:16 and Titus 3:5).


“Born Again” Experience or Baptismal Regeneration? – Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy

Hello, the gospel of Christ is always a gospel that saves through obedience.

But more than obedience alone.
Nothing saves alone.
Gods grace saves us.
Our faith saves us.
Our obedience to the gospel commands save us.

Jesus made it simple to understand that water is a condition to obtain salvation, Mark 16:15-16.

But it needs to be known that nowhere in any book of the Bible are babies subject to the gospel of
Christ.

Infant baptism is not a Biblical doctrine of Jesus' gospel but a tradition started by men.

Because babies have never been separated from God , they are sinless, Matthew 18:3.

Only sin separates us from God, Isaiah 59:2.

Since Christ shed His blood for our sins, Matthew 26:28.

Only those who need the blood of Christ are sinners.

The gospel is to seek and save the lost.

Therefore babies never being seperated from God through sin, are not in need of a gospel that saves sinners through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Just as Jesus being a man is without the need of a Saviour Himself because He never sinned, 1Peter 2:22.

Babies being sinlessly perfect are in no need of Christ sin cleansing blood.

To baptize a baby to "save" them, is to perform an act that is unbiblical, unscriptual and in error of Jesus' purpose of why adults need to be saved by the gospel, Romans 1:16.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Infant baptism is not a Biblical doctrine of Jesus' gospel but a tradition started by men.

Because babies have never been separated from God , they are sinless, Matthew 18:3.

They baptize full house holds
The Household of Cornelius, Acts 11:13–14: “Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.”

• The Household of Lydia, Acts 16:15: “And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, ‘If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.’ So she persuaded us.”

• The Philippian Jailor’s Household, Acts 16:33: “And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.”

• The Household of Crispus, Acts 18:8: “Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.”

• The Household of Stephanas, 1 Corinthians 1:16: “Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.”
It is true that baptism is the washing away of sin, and one could say that it seems senseless to baptize a child if they have no inherited guilt to wash away. However, Christ’s sacrifice, in to which we are baptized, was a sacrifice of His whole life as a submission to God— “not My will, but Yours, be done” (Luke 22:42)—and His death on the Cross not only washed away our sins, but also destroyed death itself. When we are baptized we are baptized into His life and death (Romans 6:4), and we become co-beneficiaries of a life which finally brought God and man into a union of love and a harmony of will. The infant is initiated into that union. This initiation will include the forgiveness of their sins, but is not limited to that forgiveness. The life and death of Christ, which reverses the primordial, generational, and personal falleness of this world, is what the child enters through baptism.

The gospel is to seek and save the lost.

Therefore babies never being seperated from God through sin, are not in need of a gospel that saves sinners through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Just as Jesus being a man is without the need of a Saviour Himself because He never sinned, 1Peter 2:22.

Babies being sinlessly perfect are in no need of Christ sin cleansing blood.

To baptize a baby to "save" them, is to perform an act that is unbiblical, unscriptual and in error of Jesus' purpose of why adults need to be saved by the gospel, Romans 1:16.

First, this thread isnt for infant baptism. Secondly,
We believe that baptism is a Christian equivalent of circumcision; circumcision, in turn, was a harbinger of Christian baptism. Given that circumcision was performed on boys to make them part of the nation of God – the nation of the Covenant – at the age when they couldn’t realize it, Christian kids should also have the privilege and the obligation to become part of the Church, the Body of Christ. Having received the grace of Baptism, Christian children join the New Covenant with the Father through the Blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. The Lord came on earth to facilitate our unity with the Father. If children became part of the nation of Israel in the Old Testament and, by virtue of that, were entitled to benefits; why should children’s status get worse, not better, after the coming of Christ?
Baptism is so important and necessary for all people including children that the Church has always urged the faithful to have their children baptized in the first couple of weeks after their birth – or right away in cases of deadly danger. There are clear references to infant baptism since as early as the 2nd century. Hence, we cannot deny that cases of infant baptism were known even in the Apostolic times. Irenaeus, a 2nd-century saint, mentions infant baptism as a completely typical thing. A local Council of Carthage, led by Saint Cyprian (3rd century) also confirmed the legitimacy of infant baptism and pointed out that age restrictions were not set in stone. Likewise, Origen claimed that “the Church has a tradition to baptize even children, passed on by the Apostles.” (Origen, Commentary on Romans 5: 9). First mentions of infant baptisms never incited any dissent in the early Church, which can be taken to mean that it was a time-honored practice, rather than an innovation.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Your defense would be all well and good, if you had mentioned children being baptized.

You failed to give one Biblical example of infant baptism.

Also as I already showed, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the forgiveness of sins, Acts 2:38.

Babies have no reason to be baptized.
It is a tradition begun by men who were involved in a division of the Lords church.

The Household of Crispus, Acts 18:8: “Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.”

believed on the Lord with all his household. And many Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.

It is good that you used the examples of conversion in the book of Acts.

Notice with Cornelius and his household.
What did they ALL do?
They believed the gospel preached by Peter.
Do you know of any babies that believe the gospel when it is preached to them?
You ever met a preacher that goes to homes and preaches the gospel to the infants of the family?

This misunderstanding of babies being baptized because households were baptized is ignorance of the scriptures.

The gospel must be first believed!
Babies are incapable of understanding the gospel.
The first requirement of God to be saved is faith.
Babies are incapable of having faith.
Therefore no one who is without faith can be approved by God to be water baptized.

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Crispus and his household were baptized,
Acts 18:8
Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, BELIEVED ON THE LORD WITH ALL HIS HOUSEHOLD.

There is a pattern here. The prerequisite to being baptized is what? Faith, Believing the gospel.
You know of any infants that understand the gospel?
Do infants believe the gospel when they here it?

Acts 16:33
And immediately he(Philippian Jailer) and all his family were baptized.

Where is there mention of the age of the family members?
Silence! But we do have the information about the Philippian Jailers family to whether they qualified to be baptized.
Acts 16:30-31
And he brought them out and said, Sirs what must I do to be saved?
So they said, BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved, YOU AND YOUR HOUSEHOLD.

We have enough information to know that those who qualified to be baptized in the Philippian Jailers house were told to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ!

Proof, that no babies were baptized by Paul in this household. They did not have the understanding to believe what Paul taught the father of the home.

Next, Lydia and her household.
Acts 16:14
Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshipped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

Lydia herd the gospel. God opened her heart through the message of the Holy Spirit that worked through Paul.
Lydia believed the gospel.
Then after faith she was baptized into Christ.
Since the scriptures have established a pattern, all in Lydia's household must follow the same example.
Acts 16:15
And when she and her household were baptized,she begged us, saying, IF YOU HAVE FOUND ME TO BE FAITHFUL TO THE LORD, come go my house and stay.
This statement must also include the family members that were baptized by faith. They also must be found faithful to God.
This is never a requirement of babies anywhere in the Bible.

Through carefull examination of these household baptisms we can see all believed first then were baptized.
This is the proof no babies would have been baptized by Paul or any other apostle.

Next, Jesus' baptism was not for sins commited.
Jesus' baptism served a completely different purpose than what all of mankind are commanded to be baptized for.

Not one person in all the world now or to come will ever be baptized for the purpose of Jesus being baptized.
This point that babies can be baptized even though they are without sin does not have anything to do with Jesus' baptism.
This reason for babies being baptized is irrelevant.

There are clear references to infant baptism since as early as the 2nd century. Hence, we cannot deny that cases of infant baptism were known even in the Apostolic times.

Every teaching that is in the canon is either directly from God or someone who was baptized by the Holy Spirit and given all knowledge through miraculous means ie the Apostles.
Therefore church history is not 100% infallible.
History is oftentimes perverted by corrupt men.
Point is, we do not look to history outside the Bible to determine what was practised by the first century christians.
What we do, do is look to the scriptures as the only authority that can be trusted to be 100% truth.
Everything outside the Bible must be taken with a grain of salt.

There is zero examples of infant baptism given in the scriptures.
Therefore to claim it was practised is total speculation.

Origen claimed that “the Church has a tradition to baptize even children, passed on by the Apostles.” (Origen, Commentary on Romans 5: 9). First mentions of infant baptisms never incited any dissent in the early Church, which can be taken to mean that it was a time-honored practice, rather than an innovation.

It is wrong to put your trust in what Origin said or any other man after the apostles.

Are the scriptures not all sufficient to teach mankind everything we need? Yes they are.
Put your trust in God and His Inspired word not in uninspired men.

2Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

That the man of God may be COMPLETE/PERFECT thoroughly equipped for every good work.

There is no need to look to outside sources on how one obeys the gospel and lives as a christian.
To do so is to error.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Your defense would be all well and good, if you had mentioned children being baptized.

You failed to give one Biblical example of infant baptism.

Also as I already showed, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the forgiveness of sins, Acts 2:38.

Babies have no reason to be baptized.
It is a tradition begun by men who were involved in a division of the Lords church.

Completely false, the Church were one when baptism of infants were recompensed. I gave you biblical examples Households have children and infants as shown in the OT. I use that as my proof the bible doesn't state that babies arent born with original sin, they state the babies are inclination of the guilt of it so we know by that fact babies are not free of sin like you stated. Everyone is dead, if babies were sinless they wouldn't die Humans have a human nature that dies because they are born from the seed of Adam.

believed on the Lord with all his household. And many Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.

It is good that you used the examples of conversion in the book of Acts.

Notice with Cornelius and his household.
What did they ALL do?
They believed the gospel preached by Peter.
Do you know of any babies that believe the gospel when it is preached to them?
You ever met a preacher that goes to homes and preaches the gospel to the infants of the family?

This misunderstanding of babies being baptized because households were baptized is ignorance of the scriptures.

The gospel must be first believed!
Babies are incapable of understanding the gospel.
The first requirement of God to be saved is faith.
Babies are incapable of having faith.
Therefore no one who is without faith can be approved by God to be water baptized.

False the scripture does not state a necessity of believing in the gospel to be baptize, it is put with baptism because without faith baptism is meaningless. Baptism is circumcision.

Every teaching that is in the canon is either directly from God or someone who was baptized by the Holy Spirit and given all knowledge through miraculous means ie the Apostles.
Therefore church history is not 100% infallible.

What are you talking about?

History is oftentimes perverted by corrupt men.

Not gonna change the topic to defend against this.

What we do, do is look to the scriptures as the only authority that can be trusted to be 100% truth.

I dont believe sola scriptura.

Everything outside the Bible must be taken with a grain of salt.

There is zero examples of infant baptism given in the scriptures.

Explicit quotes doesnt refute historical tradition, why you think Lutherans believe infant baptism.

Therefore to claim it was practised is total speculation.

Not speculation the church sees that circumcision is by baptism and that being baptized re-missed of our original(ancestral) sin we are born with.

 

[dóxatotheó]

It is wrong to put your trust in what Origin said or any other man after the apostles.

Are the scriptures not all sufficient to teach mankind everything we need? Yes they are.
Put your trust in God and His Inspired word not in uninspired men.

Just because Prominent theologians and church fathers are not scripture doesnt mean they arent useful. Also, your verse your using for sola scriptura isnt really showing sola scriptura bible also told us to keep historical traditions which is shown through church history.

There is no need to look to outside sources on how one obeys the gospel and lives as a christian.
To do so is to error.

Dont tell me what to believe brother, its other your ignorant on my faith(church) or you just stating your views.

 

[New Testament Christian]

Just because Prominent theologians and church fathers are not scripture doesnt mean they arent useful. Also, your verse your using for sola scriptura isnt really showing sola scriptura bible also told us to keep historical traditions which is shown through church history.

Dont tell me what to believe brother, its other your ignorant on my faith(church) or you just stating your views.

All need to learn what is Gods authority.

Some will put their faith in uninspired men as the authority.

Some will put their faith in a sectarian church a division of the Lords church and its traditions and history as the authority over Gods word.

Some will choose men like Origen as the authority over the apostles and the old testament prophets.

Some will choose modern day men with positions of power in a religious sect as the ultimate authority over Gods Holy Inspired, infallible word.

Some will choose their family as the authority on what is to believe as truth.

I believe Jesus Himself and those He directly chose to give His miraculous power to(Apostles given the Holy Spirit) are the ONLY authority God allows to command His will on mankind.

Will you believe what the scriptures saith in the examples of Gods Holy apostles when they taught and baptized households?

The apostles taught faith is the prerequisite to being approved by God for His baptism.

To baptize any person without faith is to baptize without the consent of Jesus' authority.

To baptize babies because traditions of men or men outside the Bible have claimed it is what they practise is to baptize without the scriptural examples that actually took place.

Who are we going to put our trust in?

I myself will give all authority to God where it rightfully belongs.

And leave none to man who have not been chosen by God as His spoke piece.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spoke to them saying, ALL Authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU; And lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen.

Our God made it clear, only His word has the authority.
To practise anything that cannot be approved by His authoritative word, like baptizing individuals without faith-
Any teaching or practice outside of Jesus' commands is
Usurping authority from God.

Since Jesus has ALL authority.
How much does that leave us?
None.

Every man that spoke for God as a prophet or apostle.
Every man that were chosen to pen the Holy scriptures.

Were never chosen by a group of men, ever!

They were always handpicked by God Himself to do His will.

Men today that preach and teach Gods Holy Word do so under Gods authority.

Men today have no power to add or take away what God has decreed in His Holy Word.

We today can only teach what the Inspired writers have written for us to teach.

Deuteronomy 4:2
You shall not add to the word which I commanded you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away His part from the Book of Life, from the Holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

John teaches us in this book that any who worship anyone or anything other than God have violated Gods word!

Revelation 22:8-9
Now I John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to WORSHIP BEFORE THE FEET OF THE ANGEL who showed me these things.

Then he(angel) said to me, SEE THAT YOU DO NOT DO THAT. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets and of those WHO KEEP THE WORDS OF THIS BOOK.
WORSHIP GOD.

And he(angel) said to me(John)
Do not steal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand.

Luke 9:33-35
Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, Master it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah-not knowing what he said.
While he was saying this a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were fearful as they entered the cloud.
And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is My beloved Son, HEAR HIM!
When the voice had ceased, Jesus was found alone. But they kept quiet, and told no one in those days any of the things they had seen.

Jude 3
Beloved while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which WAS ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS.

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

All of Gods revelation to mankind was once for all delivered.

Any man outside the completed word of God has no authority to add or change His word.

I will believe the Holy Bible over man and his traditions.

 

[atpollard]

I Hold Baptism is necessary for salvation as the scriptures teach so (Mark 16:16 and Titus 3:5).

[Romans 10:8-13]
But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."​

Will "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD" be saved, or only those that "call on the name of the Lord and are baptized by the correct man in the correct church?"

Will I really be saved if I "confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead", or was Paul misleading people with a false hope?

Why anyone who, in the words of Charles Spurgeon ...

The Lord is my portion, saith my soul. —Lamentations 3:24
It is not "The Lord is partly my portion," nor "The Lord is in my portion"; but He Himself makes up the sum total of my soul's inheritance. Within the circumference of that circle lies all that we possess or desire. The Lord is my portion. Not His grace merely, nor His love, nor His covenant, but Jehovah Himself. He has chosen us for His portion, and we have chosen Him for ours. It is true that the Lord must first choose our inheritance for us, or else we shall never choose it for ourselves; but if we are really called according to the purpose of electing love, we can sing-

"Lov'd of my God for Him again
With love intense I burn;
Chosen of Him ere time began,
I choose Him in return."​

... would choose wilful disobedience to the Lord's command to repent and be baptized is unfathomable to me, but to claim baptism is a prerequisite for God's grace is to make Paul a liar. [Not to mention Jesus in John 3:16-21].

 

[New Testament Christian]

Completely false, the Church were one when baptism of infants were recompensed. I gave you biblical examples Households have children and infants as shown in the OT. I use that as my proof the bible doesn't state that babies arent born with original sin, they state the babies are inclination of the guilt of it so we know by that fact babies are not free of sin like you stated. Everyone is dead, if babies were sinless they wouldn't die Humans have a human nature that dies because they are born from the seed of Adam.

I am still waiting for your evidence that babies were baptized in the new testament.
Give just one example.

This may come as a shock to you but my household has no infants no babies no children.

Are you not aware that some households have no babies?

Too vague, this is speculation.

And as I have proven belief is the condition that the apostles would only baptize for.
The scriptures teach this to be true.

Babies are not sinless?

Then aborted babies are going to hell.
That is the logical conclusion of your doctrine, born with inherited sin.

Jesus did not think babies were sinfull.
Matthew 18:3
And said, Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

These were children not babies. Even children were innocent.

Matthew 21:14-16
Then the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them.

But when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that He did and the CHILDREN CRYING OUT IN THE TEMPLE AND SAYING, Hosanna to the Son of David!
They were indignant and said to Him, Do you hear what these are saying? And Jesus said to them, Yes. Have you never read,
Out of the mouth of babes and nursing infants You have perfected praise?

Jesus had young children praising Him!
Does that sound like these children had a sinful nature to you?
I'll tell you who did have a "nature" to sin, the MEN who were jews.

I dont believe sola scriptura.

Out of your own mouth!

Then your faith is not in the Holy Bible but,

False the scripture does not state a necessity of believing in the gospel to be baptize, it is put with baptism because without faith baptism is meaningless. Baptism is circumcision.

Baptism is meaningless if it is without faith! OUT OF YOUR OWN MOUTH!

Thankyou for agreeing with me! You have shown honesty even though you went against your own doctrine.

You proved yourself incorrect. And the scriptures to be correct.

Belief always precedes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

As you yourself said. Without faith baptism is meaningless.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Baptism is meaningless if it is without faith! OUT OF YOUR OWN MOUTH!

Our church believes that, but we dont believe that you should only baptize if you have faith.

You proved yourself incorrect. And the scriptures to be correct.

Nah just you strawmaning.

Belief always precedes baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

baptism can happen before or after faith but without faith.

Out of your own mouth!

Then your faith is not in the Holy Bible but,

strawman

I am still waiting for your evidence that babies were baptized in the new testament.
Give just one example.

This may come as a shock to you but my household has no infants no babies no children.

Are you not aware that some households have no babies?

To vague, this is speculation.

And as I have proven belief is the condition that the apostles would only baptize for.
The scriptures teach this to be true.

Babies are not sinless?

Then aborted babies are going to hell.

Babies might be guiltless as I already said but they have a human nature which derives from they original sin.

These were children not babies. Even children were innocent.

innocent of they're own acts not original sin

I am still waiting for your evidence that babies were baptized in the new testament.
Give just one example.

You want explicit quotes Im saying it doesnt is why we look through history aswell, to see whats Orthodox or not.