Bakers hit with $135k ruling...Go Fund Me shuts down fundraiser for them...

[OliviaMay]

I think the madi gras and rainbow parades pretty much speak for themselves.

Maybe we should have the equivalent heterosexual parades.

Madi gras isn't homosexual. It is heterosexual. Men throw females beads.

St Patricks day is just as bad.

 

[MishSill]

Um, the Roman Catholic Church has nothing to do with Roman law

Um... 313 Rome tolerated all regions... 391 Council of Nicea established or thereabouts.

 

[DaisyDay]

Madi gras isn't homosexual. It is heterosexual. Men throw females beads.

If they bare their breasts.

St Patricks day is just as bad.

It's nowhere near as raunchy.

Funny thing - the St. Patrick's Day parade in Dublin allows gays to march but the one in NYC does not.

 

[OliviaMay]

If they bare their breasts.

It's nowhere near as raunchy.

Drunken revelry that starts before dawn. Bars open at 5am to handle the sex crazed drunks.

 

[DaisyDay]

Drunken revelry that starts before dawn. Bars open at 5am to handle the sex crazed drunks.

Where? Nowhere I've ever lived (NY, Boston, Philadelphia). Sure, a lot of green beer and guys puking & urinating in the street, but not much ribaldry.

 

[MishSill]

Some people thought they where just animals and we where helping them with slavery, others used the Bible to justify slavery and to separate blacks from whites. The reason they used was that they where being punished for Cain's sins. They didn't want that sin transferred to themselves.

Complete nonsense, but that is some of what they thought at the time.

Yes I always understood from the biblical perspective that the African people were derived from the biblical canaanites. Did not realise though that in Amercian history it was the reason why those people were discriminated against.

Yes it does go both ways, but it depends on where you draw the line. Where I think you want to draw the line would let everyone do anything they want if it was part of their religion. The problem with that is when it includes harming others or trampling their rights. Letting the baker not sell the cake sets up a dangerous precedent where you could end up with all the best bakeries refusing to serve a homosexual couple, just like when blacks could go into the best restraints or buy good clothes or have to drink from the hose instead of the water fountain (to use a real live example from the South).

You may see this as trampling on your rights, but we in America have had this happen before and it is better to require a business to sell a service they provide to the public to everyone then to let them be picky. If they want to be picky they can become a private club and sell memberships. So legally there is a way forward for the bakers (and it looks like they are doing that) but then they can't hid under the guise of being open to the public.

I take it you would be opposed to having Sharia Law implemented in your country but that is in effect what your country has invited by setting this very dangerous precedent. You can be guaranteed that it will be tested in the Court.

You need to understand how broad the implications are for your country. If SSM is ok there would be few little ground on which to rule out polygamy either because the definition of marriage has substantially amended.

It is not as bad as you think. This is drawing the line in the middle so that everyone get some freedom. Sorry you feel that it is not in Christianity's favor.

It is really bad actually... there are no doubt groups likely minority ones who you are breathing a sigh of relief who are currently not able to impinge on your fundamental human rights. The door is now open for those minority groups to stamp on in.

 

[OliviaMay]

Where? Nowhere I've ever lived (NY, Boston, Philadelphia). Sure, a lot of green beer and guys puking & urinating in the street, but not much ribaldry.

Houston, Columbus oh. Chicago. Where there are drunks there is sex.

 

[MishSill]

If you are talking about common law, not that much of it came from Rome. Some from the Bible, but that has fallen away over time.

If you are talking about civil law, the framework is Roman, but not much of the original Roman law remands.

Neither is based 100% on the Bible. Nor is the Bible's laws codified in U.S. law as Biblical laws. And the ones that have been have been struck down as Unconstitutional.

That was a conversation I had with someone else on here but I was referring to where they were derived from in their establishment.

Of course laws have changed over time and in particular laxed in their application. Some found in criminal law remain eg. theft and murder.

Common law of course is about setting precedents in that individual country...as our law is derived from the UK some of our precedents are based on decisions of the Privy Council.

Like I said even though I totally acknowledge laws have changed (and greatly in the last 50 years here) I was pointing out to people who were clearly in denial, that our laws were in their origin steeped in Christianity.

 

[MishSill]

If this is the case, it would also be aiding and abetting, if a baker sold a wedding cake to a couple that is divorced and are remarrying and will be living a life of adultery. We don't hear much about that sin though, why is that?

I totally agree with you but was is a baker supposed to do, ask pointed questions?

I think ignorance is bliss.

A baker shouldn't be responsible for the actions of others in God's eyes.

Aiding and abetting though is a problem and I'm still chewing on that.

 

[MishSill]

Would this mean that homosexuals can not be Christian?

No more than a drug addict, a person fornicating or committing adultery, a liar...the list goes on.

There are an awful of people out there who are far removed from God. But He is calling them all into His kingdom and it is only by the grace of Christ's death on the cross and by the miracle working power of the Holy Spirit that someone is actually capable of turning away from that sin.

I was a dabbler of the occult before I turned to Christ. Everyone, regardless of where we are at can be received into the kingdom of God.

No one is condemmed until the end...that means until the day you die or if before, when Jesus returns.

 

[MishSill]

Would this mean, it is ok to aid the sins of others, as long as the baker doesn't know about it?

Ah...you see God is in the habit of pointing out the truth to His children. Sometimes we get it in the form of whats known as discernment (I don't know exactly what but there's something wrong here). Other times we are moved in prayer to completely avoid such situations.

God doesn't impose His entire law all at once stressing out His children.... He grows us. Ignorance in this case, (unlike my professional conduct rules), will not be judged by God.

 

[keith99]

I'm a little surprised about GoFundMe taking such a position against the bakers. I know it's a company but it seems in poor taste to remove their funding campaign IMO. It's a trend to never side with any kind of anti-LGBT position I guess for publicity and business purposes.

Uh, NO.

Raising funds for someone in a legal dispute is against the GoFundMe terms of service as was mentioned pretty early in this thread.

But it seems when Christians are expected to follow the same rules as everyone else it always gets attributed to something else.

 

[MishSill]

What theme? "Wedding" was the "theme" discussed. The baker refused to sell them any wedding cake whatsoever.

I had thought the baker refused to bake an image of a homosexual couple in marriage.

In any event, Maren appears to have covered the story well. It turns out that the bakers were harrassing the customers through social media etc. That's what they were sued for.

 

[DaisyDay]

I had thought the baker refused to bake an image of a homosexual couple in marriage.

No.

In any event, Maren appears to have covered the story well. It turns out that the bakers were harrassing the customers through social media etc. That's what they were sued for.

Wow, who knew.

 

[MishSill]

A few states and several larger cities have added Sexual Orientation in their Civil Rights laws. The Religious Accommodation law I mentioned is a federal law.

I wish we had a similar law. It is why I suspect our Govt. is hesitating on approving SSM.

As I'm guessing you know, we also have non-profit groups, just that a private company here can be for profit or non-profit. This is one of the areas where state laws vary widely -- most of these types of business laws are legislated at the state level. In fact, many large US corporations are incorporated in the small state of Delaware, regardless of where the company actually has their main offices, because they have favorable business laws.

We are the opposite here. Company organisations actually fall under federal law only because it was written in our constitution.

The US has signed the treaty and, after some of the recent racial issues in the US, apparently the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination has issued a report stating the US is in violation of their obligations under the treaty.

Do you mean the events in Ferguson? We saw it on our news over here. Pretty horrific stuff.

We have a lot of legal accomodation for indigenous Aussies. Major cases with their recognition of land rights have brought this group a long way. We still have far to go and I feel there is too a lot of prejudice in the police force when I was looking at the criminal stats.

 

[MishSill]

Madi gras isn't homosexual. It is heterosexual. Men throw females beads.

St Patricks day is just as bad.

Not over here it isn't.

http://www.mardigras.org.au/

 

[OliviaMay]

Not over here it isn't.

http://www.mardigras.org.au/

So there is gay mrdigras. so what. Mardi Gras is a catholic event. How do you not know that? Lent and all that.

 

[MishSill]

Sure and many christians have mentioned it wasn't about being gay, it was about supporting what they deemed was "sinful".

Therefore, a discussion about what is considered sinful, is appropriate.

Go fo it... start up a new discussion thread.

 

[MishSill]

So there is gay mrdigras. so what. Mardi Gras is a catholic event. How do you not know that? Lent and all that.

You first quoted my response to someone else where I was pointing out that homosexuality to a large group who feel a need to parade in the annual madi gras and rainbow etc. as an example of their sexuality being their identity.

I didn't know that madi gras was a catholic event. Are you talking historically or presently?

 

[OliviaMay]

You first quoted my response to someone else where I was pointing out that homosexuality to a large group who feel a need to parade in the annual madi gras and rainbow etc. as an example of their sexuality being their identity.

I didn't know that madi gras was a catholic event. Are you talking historically or presently?

Drunk parade stupidity. Whether it is Mardi Gras or any other event. Mardi Gras is Catholic. http://www.history.com/topics/holidays/mardi-gras

I notice that often you simply say oopsie I didn't know such and such. I think perhaps you could maybe take some initiative to use google every once and awhile.