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Bad theology springs from bible selectivity.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by GingerBeer, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    You say first off
    'Bad theology:

    Every single individual human being has sinned (EXCLUDING original sin).'
    ********************************

    ???
    All have sinned, that is the truth, except Jesus Christ, but that scripture is about people not God.

    God is soveriegn, God has confined all under sin, the whole world is under sin.
    Galatians 3:22
    But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
    The above verse blows you right out of the water, but I wonder if you can take it.
    You are in serious error, as are all those who applauded your post.
    Your bad theology is corrected by scripture, but I doubt you will change your mind. People are hardened into their bad theology, because they do not understand and believe the truth.

    Romans 3
    9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

    19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

    All sin, but not all obtain mercy to be saved.​
     
  2. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Here is another good 'proof text' for the OP.

    Romans 4:7-9New King James Version (NKJV)

    7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
    And whose sins are covered;
    8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”


    God decides to whom He will impute to them their sin and God decides who not to impute to them their sin.
    Some obtain mercy, to them their sin is not imputed, others, well they just die in their sins. This is according to God's sovereign purpose and will.

    Example from Peter
    7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

    “The stone which the builders rejected
    Has become the chief cornerstone,”

    8 and

    “A stone of stumbling
    And a rock of offense.”

    They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

    9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.


    So why did some believe? They obtained mercy, they were chosen to be His people, they were elected.
    God called them out of darkness into the light, God brought them forth, they did not bring themselves out of the darkness into the light, Christ said men's deeds are evil and they will not come to the light lest they be exposed.

    So why did some stumble over Christ? Why did Christ offend them?
    They were appointed by God to stumble. They were appointed by God to be disobedient.


    While God's elect were appointed by God to be obedient to Christ and sprinkled with His blood.

    Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
    1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

    To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

    Grace to you and peace be multiplied.


    I honestly think people are hardened when they demonstrate over and over that they can not understand spiritual things.
     
  3. jimmyjimmy

    jimmyjimmy Pardoned Rebel Supporter

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    Kinda difficult to love God with all your mind if you don't engage your mind.
     
  4. disciple1

    disciple1 Newbie

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    The law introduced 2000 years later doesn't do away with the promise either.
    Galatians chapter 3 verse 17
    What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
     
  5. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Job repented his uninformed words but he repented no sins and God himself testifies that Job spoke what was right about God. You've equated "repent" with "he sinned and hence needed to repent" and that is an invalid equation.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I disagree. Repentance is only in need if one is transgressed Gods will or law in some way. Repentance has always been tied to forgiveness in regards to sin of some kind. Not all sin is the same. There are degrees of sin. But if someone feels the need to repent, it is usually a serious of enough of a kind of sin they need to be forgiven of with God. For why would one want to repent in the first place if they did nothing wrong?

    Elihu says this of Job (Which was true).

    "Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge." (Job 35:16).

    God said of Job, ""Who is this who keeps darkening my counsel without knowing what he's talking about?" (Job 38:2) (ISV).

    "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." (James 3:6).

    Also, we learn the heart of Job's sin here:

    1 "So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
    2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God." (Job 32:1-2).

    "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
    (Proverbs 14:12).

    Also, a Christian on another forum said this of Job (and it makes sense):

    We know that Job's affliction was not because he sinned. But Job's affliction brought forth the corruption and depravity of his heart. Pain revealed his true character.

    In one sense his affliction proved his integrity, in that he did not serve God solely for personal gain, as Satan had suggested (in chapters 1 and 2), nor did he curse God.

    But, on the other hand, his complaints in the midst of suffering showed his inner-corruption.

    He did not curse God, yet he cursed his birth, he cursed his day, he cursed his three counsellors, he cursed his festering sores, he even cursed the ash-heap he was sitting upon.

    He says God is pursuing him him like a mad hunter bent on destroying him, yet he has no idea why? He blattantly challenges God to come down and explain what's going on, and then complains when God doesn't show-up.

    It is only after God does reveal Himself in chapters 38-41 (God's Science Quiz: Where were You when I made the earth? What are its measurements? and etc...), that Job repents.

    I'm persuaded that the sin of which Job repents is his demanding that God answer Him, as though God were some how accountable to him. The sin of the clay demanding of the potter, "Why have you made me this way?" (Romans 9:20).

    This is a sin, which common experience shows us that we all share. We dare question God's providential dealings when things don't go to our liking. In essence God's rebuke of Job in chapters 38-41 is well summarized by Paul's answer to the questioning lump of clay in Romans 9. "But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?"

    By: Presbyterian Deacon.

    In other words, the clay (Job) questioned the Potter (the Lord), and then God came down in whilrl wind and spoke of his creation to Job. Do you get it? In the end: Job was in the wrong for not only speaking words without knowledge but Job (the clay) was in the wrong for trying to make demands like the Potter (God) who made many wonderous things that Job could not totally understand.


    Source:
    Where does Job Sin?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Are you saying God makes some people to be a certain way in regards to their place in eternity?
    Meaning, do you believe God chooses to save some people and chooses not save others despite man's free will? If so, Jesus said the following words (which refutes this kind of silly thinking)...

    "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me" (Matthew 23:37) (NLT).


    ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Also, Lucifer was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found within him (Ezekiel 28:15). So the idea that if one is perfect at one point in time does not guarantee that they will not faulter or sin later. We still have free will.


    ...
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Smart remarks does not mean that you are right in any way. You have kept throwing new verses at me instead of explaining the ones I already presented to you. I explain with God's Word, and then you throw new verses at me (hoping that will silence me). I explain the verses using the context and then you end with a smart remark. Is this how you convince people of the truth of God's Word?

    In other words, prove your case using the context. Explain your side of what those verses mean instead of making generalized statements about how you are right about the Bible and I am wrong.


    ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  10. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    The scriptures tell us that God repented.
    Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

    Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.​
    It cannot be true that "Repentance is only in need if one is transgressed Gods will or law in some way." if God repents.
     
  11. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    How is head theology of the little grey cells, that is purely an academic exercise an example of loving God? The people who were responsible for Christ being crucified had such theology. Such an academic exercise is not being done out of love for God, but rather because the individual simply revels in studying theology.
    And where does this academic exercise lead at times? People claim Individuals, apart from Christ lived a totally sinless life. They base this on an academic study of reading a small mount of verses of the literal letter.
    Thus academic study does not entail pausing, and considering what it would mean to live a totally sinless life:
    You cannot have even one impure thought since you reach puberty.
    You can never look at a woman with lust in your eye.
    You must ceaselessly, without slip love all those you come unto contact with, including those who may malign, persecute, or hate you.
    You must not have an unkind thought, or say an unkind word to anyone your whole life.
    You would have to be a freak of nature, to put it mildly to be such a person.
    However, pure theological reasoning of the mind built on small samples of the literal letter doesn't consider such things.

    For clarification. Jesus harsh words of the Pharisees were due to him having great love and compassion for those they crushed whilst preaching what they did not practice
     
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not the same thing. Does it say in Genesis that God repented in dust and ashes? No. Repenting in ashes was always associated with repenting of sin. Besides, the Scriptures tell us in several places what Job's sins were towards the end of the book of Job. Yes, Job was perfect and upright during the time God said such a thing to the devil, but later, Job faultered (not in the way that the devil suggested). Job kept the faith and was not serving God for mere gain, but Job sinned by trying to be like God by thinking He knew better than God. Job also spoke words without knowledge. Job spoke in vanity against God's counsel. We cannot as believers act like we know better than God. These were Job's sin towards the end of his struggle. Job cracked under the pressure of His test but yet, he still remained faithful to God because he never cursed God and he still believed he was his redeemer. To not see this in the book of Job is to fall into the same trap of sin that Job did.


    ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  13. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Does scripture say that Enoch repented in dust and ashes? No!What is your point? It looks like your posts are written to avoid what scripture says.

    God said that Job was perfect and upright. God was pleased with Enoch and took him. Jesus knew no sin. Unborn infants and infants dying in infancy have done nothing either good or bad. Those are the salient passages put forward as counter examples to the bad theology proposition that each and every individual human being sins.
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I am actually against "Eternal Security" and or a "Sin and still be Saved Gospel." I believe it is possible for believers to live perfect and upright before God, too (See my defense of this truth in God's Word here). However, I have learned that being perfect before God at one point in one's life does not guarantee that one will not sin again. The record of the devil and Job proves this point.

    Did Enoch never sin? The Scriptures do not say. So we cannot assume for or against that he sinned or not. I do believe Enoch lived righteously unlike any other man besides Jesus. It was Enoch's righteous living whereby the Lord took him without him seeing death.

    Well, you did not address the verses I brought up. Do you mind telling me which verses you think I ignored? It is possible I missed them and I would be happy to explain them.

    Yes. This is 100% true. Job was living righteous, perfect, and upright before God at the time God declared this truth to the devil. But even Scripture says that Lucifer was perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him. The same is true with Job. Except Job did not outright rebel against God but he still sinned by trying to act like he knew more than God and for demanding that God explain Himself.

    I do not disagree. But Enoch's life was not exactly like Job's life. There is no mention in Scripture that Job was also translated so as to not see death.

    I agree. But this was because he was born of a virgin and because He was God incarnate.

    I agree. They are in God's Kingdom if they were to die. I use this argument all the time to refute those who wrongfully believe that sin does not separate a believer from God (salvation wise). For when a baby grows up, they fall into sin and they need a Savior.

    Then there is also the 144,000 in Revelation 14:3-5, too. They were found without fault before the throne of God. This is not some kind of OSAS righteousness that is all in one's head but this is in regards to righteous living. So yes, I believe it is possible to live righteously.

    I believe the only adult person who has never sinned is Jesus. Every other adult person and their life is a mystery as to whether or not they have sinned. But I lean towards the idea that everyone (besides Jesus and babies) have sinned at some point in their life.


    ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  15. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    You miss the word 'mercy' that is in so many scriptures. God forgives some men their sins, to demonstrate His mercy.
    All mankind sin and you don't believe God has confined all mankind under sin, you think some men are sinless. Must mean you think people are basically at their nature, good too?
     
  16. sdowney717

    sdowney717 Newbie

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    Did Job sin?
    Did Job curse the day of his birth? YES

    Job 3 New King James Version (NKJV)
    1 After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.

    2 And Job spoke, and said:

    3 “May the day perish on which I was born,
    And the night in which it was said,
    ‘A male child is conceived.’

    4 May that day be darkness;
    May God above not seek it,
    Nor the light shine upon it.
    5 May darkness and the shadow of death claim it;
    May a cloud settle on it;
    etc...

    As opposed to praising God for the day which He had made.
    Psalm 118:24
    This is the day the Lord has made;
    We will rejoice and be glad in it.

    Did Job admit he had transgression and iniquity? He is not even sure himself. Job is in severe distress.
    Job did though curse what God had done in creating that day on which he was born. And that is a sin.
    If you curse what God has made or done, that is a sin.

    Job 7
    20 Have I sinned?
    What have I done to You, O watcher of men?
    Why have You set me as Your target,
    So that I am a burden to myself?
    21 Why then do You not pardon my transgression,
    And take away my iniquity?

    For now I will lie down in the dust,
    And You will seek me diligently,
    But I will no longer be.
     
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