Bad leader, pastor doesn't fully know, what do you do?

What would you do?

  • Go to the pastor, and explain what is happening.

  • Don't say anything, just bow out quietly.


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Hello,

I want to explain my situation. My wife and I, like almost everything, diverge on what to do in this situation. But I figured I'd ask and see what consensus I get.

We have been serving in China for 16 months. We went under a church in Korea that is organized as a cell group church. We were under a cell group leader in China, a Korean woman, who has lived in China for 4 years.

Before we got there, I emailed her and asked her various questions, including asking if two boxes of my personal effects from America had arrived in China. She would respond with very short, blunt, and dare I say it, rude, answers. Told my wife before we even left for China that I could feel that she was very rude and arrogant and self-serving. She shrugged it off, didn't really buy that I could perceive that much through a series of emails.

Then we got there. She had told the pastor that there was a job lined up for my wife when there wasn't. I later talked to her about this, and she told me there never was, and didn't know why the pastor had said anything about this. The pastor still attests to this day that the cell group leader in China literally told her that she had a job lined up for my wife.

She began ignoring our very presence there. She wouldn't talk to us or tell us anything, unless she was barking orders to us at the last possible minute. In her defense, she helped us locate our first apartment there, helped us set up our cell phones there, and bought us a couple of housewarming items, such as a water boiler. But after that, the former things that I mentioned began happening frequently.

If she was a very hands off leader, I would understand. But she dotes on two other ministry workers within the group, one Korean, one Filipina. She keeps them apprised of everything within this group, whereas we're on the fringe, knowing nothing unless the two I just mentioned say something, then they stopped telling us much of what the leader told them, because they realized we don't know, and the leader doesn't want us to know. Or maybe she just told them outright not to tell us.

She put me in charge of preaching, then began twisting my words after I preached, and eventually, removed me from the duty, leaving me with no ministry within the church.

So we spent 15 months isolated there, feeling outcast and thrown out to the garbage. I began experiencing panic attacks, major depression, and overall frustration and disgust with the whole thing. At one point I went over to vent to the Filipina in our group, and she told me, point blank, that the leader told her, "He is having difficulty here because he's called for North Korea, he has to experience difficulty to be effective there."

Well, we came back to Korea. I had a meeting with the pastor of this church last week, and told her about my panic attacks, how I felt isolated, alone, worthless during my time in China. She sent me to a doctor to get checked out, who advised we NOT return to China.

Well, Sunday came, and the group leader from China came in front of the church to give a report of what's happening there. I was not there, I was serving another church at the time, but according to my wife, she mentioned herself, and the other Korean and the Filipina's ministry and what they were doing and how she was helping them. She never mentioned my wife and I at all nor did she even infer that we were there at all.

After that, my wife looked in the church bulletin, and found that in the section where it lists all the cell groups and their attendees, we are listed nowhere in the Chinese group, neither as leaders (which I was one), or as attendees. Who was mentioned however, was one of the group leader's friends who is moving from Korea to China soon to begin ministry there with the leader. So we aren't even on the list, but someone who isn't even there yet already is.

I feel like I need to have another private meeting with the pastor there, so that I can fully articulate what happened there. My wife doesn't want me to, she says it would add undue stress to the pastor. But I feel like the pastor not only has a right to know, but an obligation as a pastor to know when one of her leaders is erring dangerously.

What would you do?
 

LilLamb219

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I'm kind of confused about who you're referring to as the pastor you want to meet with as well. Is there any possible way that you can meet with the pastor AND this woman involved and just get to the bottom of it once and for all? I think it would help clear up all these issues.
 
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Albion

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You know, it's easy for us to offer advice from where we stand, having nothing invested like you do. However, I'd recommend getting out of there and finding some real church with experience, substance, organization, etc. to sponsor you if you want to start afresh. I see no way to save the current situation.
 
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krugerpark

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going from gut I'd say its a complete waste of your time to continue with it, send an email to the superior

dont throw any unnecessary money or time into it, you've put enough good after bad already

the fact that you went ahead of this knowing something wasn't right is telling enough

if you knew she was going to be belligerent and uncooperative, you should have been prepared for that with a game plan (eg. do your own thing and they will follow you instead of her)
 
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Girder of Loins

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The superior to them woman you are in strife with needs to be in the light about this issue. Who knows, this woman could be putting a bad name in for you, and he/she needs to hear both sides of your story. So I would contact that person and apprise them of the situation.
 
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Girder of Loins

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well at the end of the day you ought to pray about it and make sure God has given you an answer

please don't take the advice here for that, we can be helpful as far as common sense goes.

QFT
 
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BFine

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I am surprised you and your wife haven't gotten on the first flight
out of the country.

Leadership in the Chinese church is so out of line-- make a full report
to your minister in the USA....you have been in China for 15 months and
nothing has been righted yet?
I find you are in over your head and by not speaking up a lot sooner this
matter has snowballed-- leading you to being depressed etc.
Sorry but you aren't ready yet --return home and work on growing
in the Lord and gaining a bit of experience with handling conflict.

You aren't the first minister to get in over his head, but with some more
spiritual growth and lessons in dealing with conflict etc. you could become
a good leader.
 
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147

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Ok, to clarify, I am in fact referring to meeting with the pastor of the church. This is a Korean church doing ministry in China. My American church can do nothing in regards to my situation, they are unaffiliated. The woman in question has already returned to China.

As far as breaking away from the whole thing, I already told my wife I've had enough signs thrown my way that this whole endeavor with this group was a bad idea. I'm now serving in another church in Korea whom I was already connected with, really feel my heart to serve reigniting there. I already told my wife if we go back to China for whatever reason, I won't return to that group, that I'll be going to the international church. But honestly, I see no reason that holds any validity to return to China presently.

I asked my wife to follow my lead, and she wants to stick around this church. Even the pastor there is urging her to follow me. Right now, I'm praying she puts two and two together, but she's way too hard headed.
 
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