Bad, horrible, anger-inducing experience at the gym today

[Amélie Unbound]

I wanted so badly to post this afternoon, because I had one of the worst episodes EVER with someone concerning my childfreedom. But apparently the site was down, so I couldn't post, and I was very frustrated. I've calmed down a bit now, but I still want to share this. I'm going to copy and paste the story from an e-mail I wrote to Snoochface this afternoon when I was desperate to talk about it.

I joined a gym today. The gym employee who was signing me up and taking my measurements and whatnot was asking me friendly questions, you know, get-to-know-you stuff. What do you do, where are you from, how long have you lived here, etc. So then she says, "What about kids? Do you have kids?"

"No," I said.

"Any plans for kids?" she asked.

"No," I said.

"NO?" she asked loudly, in a disbelieving tone, with a stunned look on her face.

"No," I repeated.

She was silent for a long time as she continued to take my measurements. After a couple minutes she said, "Is it because you move around a lot? Is that why you have no plans for kids?"

I said, "No."

And then she said, with a look of horror on her face, "Is it that you just don't like children?"

So then, because I'm a freakin' idiot, I started to tell her my story. I said, "Well, I have health issues that make it unlikely that I'll conceive naturally, but my husband and I are completely at peace with it, because we don't have a desire to have children anyway."

She looked a bit relieved (presumably to find out there's something physically wrong with me and not just, in her view, mentally), and she said, "So if you do get pregnant, you'll be okay with it, but you're also okay with it if you don't?"

Not wanting to discuss it further, I said, "Well, yeah, I guess you could put it that way." (Not 100% true, but close, since of course if I did get pregnant I would keep the child.)

And then she said, "So you have no plans to adopt?"

I said, "No."

And she said, "Well, you'll probably change your mind as you get older."

I said, "I don't think so. You know that thing that most women have inside them that makes them yearn for children? I don't have that."

"Oh, so you don't have that maternal thing, huh?"

"No."

And then she said, "So your husband feels the same way you do about kids?"

I said, "Yes."

And she said, almost sarcastically (at least according to my perception), "Oh well, I guess you make a good pair then."

So anyway, I am so upset right now. And you know who I'm really mad at? ME. What is wrong with me, that I am so freakin' polite that I can't even let someone know that they're being totally out of line? I shouldn't have answered any of her questions. She was a complete stranger, and my reproductive life is none of her freakin' business.

The thing is, I tried to keep it to one word answers, until I saw the look of shock and horror on her face, and then I started worrying about what she was thinking about me, so I tried to explain myself. Why do I get like that? I mean, why should I care what she thinks of me? I should have just told her it was none of her business. But I can be tough and speak my mind on internet forums, but as soon as I'm face to face with someone, I can't be anything less than completely nice and polite. And while some people might think that's a good way to be, I hate myself for it right now.

Oh, and one other thing (not related to childfreedom, but since I'm venting anyway...), this woman, when she measured my body fat percentage (using this little machine thing that sends a current through your body which can tell how much fat you have on your body) and calculated my BMI, or whatever (forgive me if I'm getting my terminology wrong), she said, "Oh, wow, your BMI isn't nearly as high as I thought it was going to be from looking at you."

Oh, well, gee, thanks. How nice to know that I look fatter than I actually am. Isn't that just peachy.

I know, I should write a letter to the manager about this woman, but I figure that would just cause more awkwardness when I go in there than there already will be.

 

[bluebug83]

My goodness, what a classic example of people sticking their nose way too far into things that are none of their business. Imagine if it had been a woman who desperately wanted children but was infertile, and burst in to tears whenever someone inquired about why she didn't have kids. I bet that would have been enough to make that woman feel horrible.

And I COMPLETELY agree that you should write a letter to the club and inform them of your experience. I did that less than two months ago with good results. We had an experience at an emergency pet clinic where we had a woman say some very rude and unprofessional things to us about some behavior problems with our dog (I now know the problems are nothing major or out of the ordinary). I was so flipping mad that I wrote them a letter and explained what happened in a NICE way; I had my husband proofread it to confirm that it was professional but to the point. We got a call back the week after I sent the letter with a sincere apology, them really wanted to know who it was who had said that awful stuff so they could discipline the employee. So writing a letter is a great way to let them know about the poor service you recieved from one of their employees, and if it is a classy place then they will take note of it and do what they can to remedy the situation. If it's not a classy place...well you will know from their response (or lack thereof), and be sure to not patronize them after your membership is up, and not recommend them to any of your friends. And be sure to let them know that.

 

[Amélie Unbound]

Okay, I think I've decided to send a letter to the manager after all. Tell me what you think of what I've written:



October 13th, 2007


Dear [Gym Manager's Name],

I had a very unpleasant experience the day I joined [name of gym]. I was grilled by one of your employees, at length, about whether or not I want to have children someday, and, based on my answer, why I don’t want to have children someday.

I was as polite as possible, and at first I tried to give one-word answers, signifying that I did not want to discuss it in detail, but the employee would not let the topic go, and her questions became more and more detailed until I was almost forced to admit that: a) I have health issues which may prevent pregnancy, and b) I do not have a maternal instinct. Believe it or not, these are not topics I actually want to discuss with someone I’ve never met before. I’m sure she thought she was trying to be friendly, but I believe a line was crossed.

Therefore, I would like to request that you instruct your employees about what questions are, and are not, appropriate to ask new clients. Specifically, a client’s reproductive choices are not appropriate topics for questions, especially during a very first meeting.

Just to clarify further:

“Do you have kids?” This is an acceptable question.

“Do you plan to have kids?” This is also a somewhat acceptable question, although it is getting a bit more personal.

“Why don’t you want kids?” This is not acceptable. This is where the line gets crossed. In my case, the line of questioning only became more personal from there, and when I was not forthcoming with my reasons, the employee began to make guesses, such as, "Is it because you move around a lot?" And, "Is it because you don't like children?"

I have told my other childless/childfree friends about my experience, and they are appalled. It’s a pretty universal sentiment that people who do not have children do not want to be grilled about their reasons.

Please understand that I don’t mean to be difficult here, but the whole experience was extremely uncomfortable for me, and I wouldn’t want to see the same thing happen to other new clients.

Thank you.

Sincerely,


[My name]

 

[fuzzymel]

Glad you are writting a letter. Some people just don't know when to shut up.

 

[snoochface]

Sample responses I would have made in that situation:

You DYE your hair??
Your boobs are FAKE??
Is your husband okay with this???
Well, I guess you're a perfect match then.
smirk smirk smirk

Orchard is a much, much nicer person than I am. (She already knows this. )

I think the letter is a good idea, and it's a good draft. I might be even a little more affronted in my tone (because, I am a much, much less nice person than you are ) but I think it sounds very professional and courteous. I'm glad you decided to write it.

 

[Amélie Unbound]

Orchard is a much, much nicer person than I am. (She already knows this. )

lol But you know, sometimes being "nice" isn't all it's cracked up to be. Sometimes a little more assertiveness is necessary. And I'm just not good at that kind of thing. I wish I could be more like you!

 

[progressivegal]

Holly. freaking. crap.
Wow.
Frst let me say that I have the exact same job as the woman that was so rude to you. We probably even work for the same chain. I can't even imagine what was going through her head! I was told that "So, do you have children?" is a good ice breaker and I've used it once or twice, but really I feel uncomfortable asking it because it's none of my business. Now, only if someone mentions having children earlier I might say "how many children do you have/how old are your children/etc."
Her comment about your BMI was also just totally inappropriate, wow. I still can't believe it. Im guessing she was new/nervous (I think I probably said a lot of stupid things when I was knew, not that that is any excuse...) or has no sense of tact whatsoever.
I defintiely sounds like you took the high road and weren't rude back to her. I have actually had a couple of clients tell me that they are uncomfortable when people ask if they have children (not responding to something I asked, just a general comment when talking about kids) and especially asking them WHY or acting like it's a bad thing or whatever. That's also a big reason why I don't ask.
Anyway, I think your letter is very nice and written very well, hopefully the manager will have a talk with the employees about what questions are and are not approriate to ask soi this does not happen again.

 

[Rembrandtfan]

I wanted so badly to post this afternoon, because I had one of the worst episodes EVER with someone concerning my childfreedom. But apparently the site was down, so I couldn't post, and I was very frustrated. I've calmed down a bit now, but I still want to share this. I'm going to copy and paste the story from an e-mail I wrote to Snoochface this afternoon when I was desperate to talk about it.

I joined a gym today. The gym employee who was signing me up and taking my measurements and whatnot was asking me friendly questions, you know, get-to-know-you stuff. What do you do, where are you from, how long have you lived here, etc. So then she says, "What about kids? Do you have kids?"

"No," I said.

"Any plans for kids?" she asked.

"No," I said.

"NO?" she asked loudly, in a disbelieving tone, with a stunned look on her face.

"No," I repeated.

She was silent for a long time as she continued to take my measurements. After a couple minutes she said, "Is it because you move around a lot? Is that why you have no plans for kids?"

I said, "No."

And then she said, with a look of horror on her face, "Is it that you just don't like children?"

So then, because I'm a freakin' idiot, I started to tell her my story. I said, "Well, I have health issues that make it unlikely that I'll conceive naturally, but my husband and I are completely at peace with it, because we don't have a desire to have children anyway."

She looked a bit relieved (presumably to find out there's something physically wrong with me and not just, in her view, mentally), and she said, "So if you do get pregnant, you'll be okay with it, but you're also okay with it if you don't?"

Not wanting to discuss it further, I said, "Well, yeah, I guess you could put it that way." (Not 100% true, but close, since of course if I did get pregnant I would keep the child.)

And then she said, "So you have no plans to adopt?"

I said, "No."

And she said, "Well, you'll probably change your mind as you get older."

I said, "I don't think so. You know that thing that most women have inside them that makes them yearn for children? I don't have that."

"Oh, so you don't have that maternal thing, huh?"

"No."

And then she said, "So your husband feels the same way you do about kids?"

I said, "Yes."

And she said, almost sarcastically (at least according to my perception), "Oh well, I guess you make a good pair then."

So anyway, I am so upset right now. And you know who I'm really mad at? ME. What is wrong with me, that I am so freakin' polite that I can't even let someone know that they're being totally out of line? I shouldn't have answered any of her questions. She was a complete stranger, and my reproductive life is none of her freakin' business.

The thing is, I tried to keep it to one word answers, until I saw the look of shock and horror on her face, and then I started worrying about what she was thinking about me, so I tried to explain myself. Why do I get like that? I mean, why should I care what she thinks of me? I should have just told her it was none of her business. But I can be tough and speak my mind on internet forums, but as soon as I'm face to face with someone, I can't be anything less than completely nice and polite. And while some people might think that's a good way to be, I hate myself for it right now.

Oh, and one other thing (not related to childfreedom, but since I'm venting anyway...), this woman, when she measured my body fat percentage (using this little machine thing that sends a current through your body which can tell how much fat you have on your body) and calculated my BMI, or whatever (forgive me if I'm getting my terminology wrong), she said, "Oh, wow, your BMI isn't nearly as high as I thought it was going to be from looking at you."

Oh, well, gee, thanks. How nice to know that I look fatter than I actually am. Isn't that just peachy.

I know, I should write a letter to the manager about this woman, but I figure that would just cause more awkwardness when I go in there than there already will be.

What's wrong with people? That is so rude.

While I think it's a good thing to be honest with someone when they are out of line, it needs to be done gently. I also think it's good that you didn't attack back at her. You can feel good about you for that, because it means you are a caring person and you don't want to be hurtful.

Also, I think your letter is awesome and you should send it.

 

[LJSGM]

lol But you know, sometimes being "nice" isn't all it's cracked up to be. Sometimes a little more assertiveness is necessary. And I'm just not good at that kind of thing. I wish I could be more like you!

No, I commend you for being nice. We are called to love our enemies, even those that are difficult to love in some way. The world is always telling us to retaliate against others, but I don't think this is the way to be an example of Christ. They should see our peace that we have in Christ, even when being drilled with imappropriate questions. That's not to say that one can not correct another person in their behavior, but not as to seek revenge or for some other selfish reasons.

You're natural reaction to love another person regardless should be commended, not shamed. We should to be wronged rather then seek retaliation.

 

[Amélie Unbound]

Holly. freaking. crap.
Wow.
Frst let me say that I have the exact same job as the woman that was so rude to you. We probably even work for the same chain. I can't even imagine what was going through her head! I was told that "So, do you have children?" is a good ice breaker and I've used it once or twice, but really I feel uncomfortable asking it because it's none of my business. Now, only if someone mentions having children earlier I might say "how many children do you have/how old are your children/etc."
Her comment about your BMI was also just totally inappropriate, wow. I still can't believe it. Im guessing she was new/nervous (I think I probably said a lot of stupid things when I was knew, not that that is any excuse...) or has no sense of tact whatsoever.
I defintiely sounds like you took the high road and weren't rude back to her. I have actually had a couple of clients tell me that they are uncomfortable when people ask if they have children (not responding to something I asked, just a general comment when talking about kids) and especially asking them WHY or acting like it's a bad thing or whatever. That's also a big reason why I don't ask.
Anyway, I think your letter is very nice and written very well, hopefully the manager will have a talk with the employees about what questions are and are not approriate to ask soi this does not happen again.

Thanks. It's interesting to get the perspective of someone who works in a gym!

I didn't get the impression that she was new, as she seemed to know everyone who came in there and even told me gossip about some of them! I think it is, like you suggested, just a lack of tactfulness. She seemed extremely extroverted and obviously liked to talk, and perhaps she just has no filter on her mouth.

What's wrong with people? That is so rude.

While I think it's a good thing to be honest with someone when they are out of line, it needs to be done gently. I also think it's good that you didn't attack back at her. You can feel good about you for that, because it means you are a caring person and you don't want to be hurtful.

Also, I think your letter is awesome and you should send it.

Thank you for the support.

No, I commend you for being nice. We are called to love our enemies, even those that are difficult to love in some way. The world is always telling us to retaliate against others, but I don't think this is the way to be an example of Christ. They should see our peace that we have in Christ, even when being drilled with imappropriate questions. That's not to say that one can not correct another person in their behavior, but not as to seek revenge or for some other selfish reasons.

You're natural reaction to love another person regardless should be commended, not shamed. We should to be wronged rather then seek retaliation.

Thank you. I understand what you're saying, but I do think I should have been a bit more assertive, and politely said something like, "That's a little personal, don't you think?"

I know it's good that I wasn't rude to her, but I think she should somehow be made aware that she was being inappropriate. I mean, like I said in my letter, I'd hate to think that any other client would have to experience what I did. That's the only reason I'm considering sending the letter. Not out of revenge (you'll notice I didn't mention in the letter which employee it was), but just to try to protect others from that kind of thing in the future.

 

[mina]

That is INCREDIBILY rude and ugly and out of line for her to say! Definitely send in the letter! Her manager needs to know how uncomfortable she is making customers.

 

[LJSGM]

Thanks. It's interesting to get the perspective of someone who works in a gym!

I didn't get the impression that she was new, as she seemed to know everyone who came in there and even told me gossip about some of them! I think it is, like you suggested, just a lack of tactfulness. She seemed extremely extroverted and obviously liked to talk, and perhaps she just has no filter on her mouth.



Thank you for the support.



Thank you. I understand what you're saying, but I do think I should have been a bit more assertive, and politely said something like, "That's a little personal, don't you think?"

I know it's good that I wasn't rude to her, but I think she should somehow be made aware that she was being inappropriate. I mean, like I said in my letter, I'd hate to think that any other client would have to experience what I did. That's the only reason I'm considering sending the letter. Not out of revenge (you'll notice I didn't mention in the letter which employee it was), but just to try to protect others from that kind of thing in the future.

well, my purpose in writing was not to point out anything you did wrong, but to point out that you did do a lot of things right so that you might have peace, even when someone's annoying (especially now where you seem to greatly affected).

And you are right, you could have been politely more assertive as you say, but nothing to kick yourself over is what I'm implying. Just try to do so next time. Life is a learning process as some say

 

[Amélie Unbound]

well, my purpose in writing was not to point out anything you did wrong, but to point out that you did do a lot of things right so that you might have peace, even when someone's annoying (especially now where you seem to greatly affected).

And you are right, you could have been politely more assertive as you say, but nothing to kick yourself over is what I'm implying. Just try to do so next time. Life is a learning process as some say

Okay. Thank you for the support.

 

[bluebug83]

The letter looks great. The only thing I would change is add the employee's name, if you got a hold of it.

And I agree wit LJSGM about being nice. I'm another who is usually "nice" around people I don't know well, and it's a good thing since I do think it makes it easier to act as Christ wants us to act. And writing the letter will make up for anything more assertive you could have said in person - and even better, it gave you time to think about it and word it in the best way.

 

[Leanna]

I accidently came in here again..... lol.... but WOW that really sucks, that was so wrong, I feel for you. I am glad you're writing a letter so I don't have to go down there and drop kick somebody

now I am leaving!

 

[invisiblebabe]

Oh man, that is SO rude of her. I think sending the letter is a great idea, and it would be good if you added how inappropriate her BMI comment was (especially because it could lose business for them... I sure wouldn't come back to a gym where one of the employees insinuated I was fat!).

Hugs ,
Kayli

 

[Mskedi]

Okay, I think I've decided to send a letter to the manager after all. Tell me what you think of what I've written:



October 13th, 2007


Dear [Gym Manager's Name],

I had a very unpleasant experience the day I joined [name of gym]. I was grilled by one of your employees, at length, about whether or not I want to have children someday, and, based on my answer, why I don’t want to have children someday.

I was as polite as possible, and at first I tried to give one-word answers, signifying that I did not want to discuss it in detail, but the employee would not let the topic go, and her questions became more and more detailed until I was almost forced to admit that: a) I have health issues which may prevent pregnancy, and b) I do not have a maternal instinct. Believe it or not, these are not topics I actually want to discuss with someone I’ve never met before. I’m sure she thought she was trying to be friendly, but I believe a line was crossed.

Therefore, I would like to request that you instruct your employees about what questions are, and are not, appropriate to ask new clients. Specifically, a client’s reproductive choices are not appropriate topics for questions, especially during a very first meeting.

Just to clarify further:

“Do you have kids?” This is an acceptable question.

“Do you plan to have kids?” This is also a somewhat acceptable question, although it is getting a bit more personal.

“Why don’t you want kids?” This is not acceptable. This is where the line gets crossed. In my case, the line of questioning only became more personal from there, and when I was not forthcoming with my reasons, the employee began to make guesses, such as, "Is it because you move around a lot?" And, "Is it because you don't like children?"

I have told my other childless/childfree friends about my experience, and they are appalled. It’s a pretty universal sentiment that people who do not have children do not want to be grilled about their reasons.

Please understand that I don’t mean to be difficult here, but the whole experience was extremely uncomfortable for me, and I wouldn’t want to see the same thing happen to other new clients.

Thank you.

Sincerely,


[My name]

You are much nicer than me.

I'd have also either quit the gym OR, if there were no viable options nearby, demanded my registration fee refunded.

As others have said, though, now that you know just how rude some people can be, have a plan for when someone crosses a line. A simple, "Let's change the subject" works, or a "I am not comfortable talking about private issues with strangers" etc.

 

[Amélie Unbound]

I've refined the letter, and I'm quite pleased with it now, but I have a serious concern. What if this woman is the vindictive type? What if she actually gets fired, and on her way out, she looks up my address in my file, and shows up at my place with a knife or something? Okay, that's a worst case scenario, but she could get vindictive in other less violent, but still scary ways. Do I really need the hassle? Is it really worth it? Because of all the questions she asked me, she knows pretty much everything about me. She also knows about my husband and where he works and everything. What if she sets about trying to ruin our lives out of revenge for me causing trouble for her at work? (Of course, the truth is, she's causing trouble for herself with her own behavior, but you know she won't see it that way.) I might be too much of a wimp to go through with this. I'm not used to making enemies, you know?

 

[Rebekka]

Orchard, I'm so sorry to hear that some people are so horribly nosy and rude!!!! But please don't feel bad about yourself - it's her fault, not yours, and sensitive, caring people are always upset when they think they might have hurt, shocked or frustrated other people - it doesn't sound like a good quality but it actually is. It's a sign of your intelligence and empathy.

But I can be tough and speak my mind on internet forums, but as soon as I'm face to face with someone, I can't be anything less than completely nice and polite. And while some people might think that's a good way to be, I hate myself for it right now.

I'm exactly the same, and yes it makes me angry at myself too. But now that I read your version, I actually think, "well, actually people like me and Orchard are just nicer people." And we are. So we should feel good about ourselves. Never lose that empathic quality.

Whenever people hurt me and I try to think of why, what did I do wrong, why would they hurt me, and how can I solve the problem, many people tell me to stop caring about it, to stop caring about what other people think of me, to stop being so polite, etc. But actually it's the not caring that creates problems in the first place. It's not the fact that you care too much, but that many people these days don't care enough. If the gym employee had cared more about your feelings, she would have stopped asking these questions earlier. Don't feel bad for caring too much.

The letter is a good idea though.

Also, I think it's wonderful that you went to a gym. I'm so afraid of being with other people working out that I keep postponing it - I'm afraid I'll be the most-out-of-shape person there. Vicious circle, I know. LOL.

 

[snoochface]

Orchard, if you're worried about this woman being vengeful, maybe the better approach is to talk to her directly. When you see her at the gym next, tell her, "I just wanted you to know, I felt really uncomfortable by your questioning me about why I don't have kids. I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but it made me feel judged, and since you're the first person clients come into contact with here, I thought you should know." Be friendly, casual, with a tone of just informing her how you felt. It's not as confrontational. But then, if she has a negative reaction, you have even more reason to go to her supervisor about it.

Personally, I think if you're concerned about her looking you up and stalking you, if that comes from a vibe you are getting from her, it sounds like even more reason to go to someone about her.