BACs stay righteous through their obedience

[BCsenior]

We’re talking about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands!
Continuing obedience is what “being faithful” means!

“… only we who believe can enter His rest … but those who first heard this good news
failed to enter because they disobeyed God.” (Hebrews 4:3, 7)

Disobedience proves Unbelief ........ Unbelief causes Disobedience

“And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter His rest?
Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief
they were not able to enter his rest … so we ought to tremble with fear that some of
you might fail to experience it … IF we disobey God … we will fall.” (Hebrews 3:18 - 4:11)

“… make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving,
turning you away from the living God … so that none of you will be
deceived by sin and hardened against God.” (Hebrews 3:12)
If we are deceived by sin (especially habitual sin), this can result in
departing from God with “an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12, NKJV).

“Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves,
you are slaves of the one wWhom you obey,
either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death,
OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)
Slaves of obedience > eternal life ....... Slaves of sin > eternal death

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God.
But there is no (eternal) life in those who do not keep His commandments.”
(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, quoted as Scripture by such early Christian leaders
as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen. It was probably the most popular book
in the Christian church during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries a.d.)

“Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised
to those who love Him.” (James 1:12) The “crown of life” means eternal life.

“You are truly my disciples, if you remain faithful to my teachings
… anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:31, 51)

“Therefore, go and make disciples … Teach these new disciples to
obey all the commands I have given you.” (Matthew 28:19-20)

“We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.” (2 Cor. 10:5)

“To all who are victorious (overcomers) who obey Me to the very end,
to them I will give authority over all the nations.” (Revelation 2:26)

The church: “all who keep God’s commandments and
maintain their testimony for Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17)

“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.” (1 Peter 1:14)

Question: Must one love Jesus (thus obey His commandments) to get to heaven?

“If anyone does not love the Lord, that person is cursed.” (1 Corinthians 16:22)

“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15)

“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word …
He who does not love Me does not keep My words …” (John 14:21-24)

“Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.” (1 John 3:24)

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as
I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.” (John 15:10)

“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, (just) as
I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)

“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

“But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him.
By this we know that we are in Him.” (1 John 2:5)

“Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.” (John 8:51)

“For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

“This is love, that we walk according to His commandments.” (2 John 6)

“… keeping the commandments of God is what matters.” (1 Corinthians 7:19)

 

[SPF]

Do you think you still sin?

Salvation comes to us by way of grace, through faith. It's not of our own doing, but it's the gift of God. You believe that, right? Salvation comes not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. You believe that, right?

Once we are forgiven, we begin upon a lifelong process of becoming more like Christ, or better known as sanctification. We will spend our entire lives striving to become more like Christ - to love like Him, to forgive like Him, to be selfless like Him - but we won't be perfect. We'll never be perfect until He returns. We will still sin, we will still mess up. But what matters is that we repent when we do.

 

[SPF]

If I were you, I would be more concerned with your heretical view of the Trinity than anything else.... We Sure Are Good At Messing Up The Trinity

 

[BCsenior]

Salvation comes to us by way of grace, through faith. It's not of our own doing, but it's the gift of God. Salvation comes not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Once we are forgiven, we begin upon a lifelong process of becoming more like Christ, or better known as sanctification. We will spend our entire lives striving to become more like Christ - to love like Him, to forgive like Him, to be selfless like Him - but we won't be perfect. We'll never be perfect until He returns. We will still sin, we will still mess up. But what matters is that we repent when we do.

WOW! ... I too believe this!
But, this does NOT apply to all BACs!
MANY are NOT faithful, obedient, etc.
The churches are full of these (for several reasons).
One such reason is belief in OSAS,
although not all OSAS believers respond with unfaithfulness.

Meanwhile, I'm curious about your Trinity.

 

[CharismaticLady]

If I were you, I would be more concerned with your heretical view of the Trinity than anything else.... We Sure Are Good At Messing Up The Trinity

What is your view of the Trinity?

 

[CharismaticLady]

WOW! ... I too believe this!
But, this does NOT apply to all BACs!
MANY are NOT faithful, obedient, etc.
The churches are full of these (for several reasons).
One such reason is belief in OSAS,
although not all OSAS believers respond with unfaithfulness.

Meanwhile, I'm curious about your Trinity.

I didn't see that you even mentioned the Trinity. Did I miss something?

 

[SPF]

WOW! ... I too believe this!
But, this does NOT apply to all BACs!
MANY are NOT faithful, obedient, etc.
The churches are full of these (for several reasons).
One such reason is belief in OSAS,
although not all OSAS believers respond with unfaithfulness.

Interesting that you agree with me on everything I said, and yet... I believe that Paul really meant it when he said that when we believe we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. And to further clarify, I would suggest that it's a permanent seal. Because again, Salvation is given to us as a gift, through faith, and not by works. If works played a role, then I would have something to boast about.

 

[SPF]

I didn't see that you even mentioned the Trinity. Did I miss something?

He did on his previously closed thread.

 

[BCsenior]

I believe that Paul really meant it when he said that when we believe we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. And to further clarify, I would suggest that it's a permanent seal. Because again, Salvation is given to us as a gift, through faith, and not by works. If works played a role, then I would have something to boast about.

Thou art truly mixed up ...
Your Ephesians 2:8-9 concerns one's initial salvation, becoming a BAC.
Works were NOT any reason for being saved.

IF you desire to believe in a permanent seal unto salvation,
then you must ignore/reject many NT dire warnings about losing salvaton!

 

[SPF]

If works maintain my Salvation, how can I know when I've done enough good works? How can I know how many sins are too many to be forgiven? If I must do works to maintain my Salvation, then I have something to boast about.

 

[BCsenior]

If works maintain my Salvation, how can I know when I've done enough good works? How can I know how many sins are too many to be forgiven? If I must do works to maintain my Salvation, then I have something to boast about.

As per usual, people rely on their own understanding!
My former pastor used to talk about stinkin' thinkin'.

And, truly, that's about the truth of it all ... relying on stinkin' thinkin'.
Instead of just relying on the word of God, which in my case is the NT.
(Jesus told me to focus on the NT, not the OT.)
Just left a church where the pastor almost always preaches out of the OT.
Just another example of how LOST today's churches are!

BTW, one of the MAJOR reasons for God judging America
with (only so far) weather disasters ... is to WAKE UP His church!
Heavier weather disasters are forthcoming, followed by devastating earthquakes.
Not to mention the economy and financial systems CRASHING this year!
Prepare now!

 

[SPF]

As per usual, people rely on their own understanding!
My former pastor used to talk about stinkin' thinkin'.

And, truly, that's about the truth of it all ... relying on stinkin' thinkin'.
Instead of just relying on the word of God, which in my case is the NT.
(Jesus told me to focus on the NT, not the OT.)
Just left a church where the pastor almost always preaches out of the OT.
Just another example of how LOST today's churches are!

BTW, one of the MAJOR reasons for God judging America
with (only so far) weather disasters ... is to WAKE UP His church!
Heavier weather disaster are forthcoming, followed by devastating earthquakes.
Not to mention the economy and financial systems CRASHING this year!
Prepare now!

I couldn't help but notice you didn't actually answer any questions I asked. Are you just here to pontificate, or actually love others through engaging in dialogue?

 

[BCsenior]

If works maintain my Salvation, how can I know when I've done enough good works?
How can I know how many sins are too many to be forgiven?
If I must do works to maintain my Salvation, then I have something to boast about.

It's all about having the correct and acceptable heart attitude towards the Lord.
Assurance of salvation is very possible indeed, IF you are:
-- remaining faithful
-- being obedient
-- not habitually sinning
etc. etc.
Real "faithful" BACs do NOT boast about doing their "reasonable service" (Romans 12:1).

 

[SPF]

It's all about having the correct and acceptable heart attitude towards the Lord.
Assurance of salvation is very possible indeed, IF you are:
-- remaining faithful
-- being obedient
-- not habitually sinning
etc. etc.
BACs do NOT boast about doing their "reasonable service" (Romans 12:1).

As someone who currently does hold to OSAS (not very tightly though), I do agree with you.

Consider Marty Sampson, the worship well known worship leader that recently announced he was losing his faith and no longer considers himself a Christian.

One of two things happened here. Either one, he was never a Christian in the first place, or two, he was a Christian and he has committed apostasy and is no longer a Christian.

Either way, I think we would agree that his eternal destination is the same.

Out of the two options though, I think the more likely is that he was never a Christian in the first place.

 

[BCsenior]

Out of the two options though, I think the more likely is that he was never a Christian in the first place.

Okay, most probably you are correct.
But, I have a question for you ...
WHY all of the dire NT warnings about falling away, losing salvation, etc.?
WHO are they directed towards?

 

[SPF]

Okay, most probably you are correct.
But, I have a question for you ...
WHY all of the dire NT warnings about falling away, losing salvation, etc.?
WHO are they directed towards?

You would need to quote one, and then we can look at it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

He did on his previously closed thread.

I asked you what you believe.

 

[BCsenior]

You would need to quote one, and then we can look at it.

Please consider closely (sorry for the 10) ...
10 different NT warning-types against eternal security

 

[Blade]

"Give me Jesus...Fernando Ortega"..song playing now.....Thank you.. Ray Boltz..

My brother...I look up what words mean. And so many times its the 1st meaning of the word or words that is used. As in falling away..yet can also mean "departure" yet the 1st meaning is used. You in many of these verses didn't take the 1st meaning nor what most tell us what that word means.

Forgive me.. Rom 6.. one, if you asked me has to read chapters 4-5... then 7-8. Yet you leave out the best parts of Rom 6." But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness" You choose to focus on the what was...not what is. Some seem to only see flesh. We once were slaves to sin.. we are not any more. We are freed from sin. Yet you seem to believe its just a daily choice. I have been born from above.. I put on the new man.. not the old. Yet this flesh loves to sin. God does not see me like this. He sees me through Christ.. what Christ already did. Its over.. finished.

Forgive me.. so much of this is milk. Should be past this. Yet you keep.. bring it up. What I mean is.. salvation and righteousness. I never worry about losing my salvation nor once saved always saved. These are not thoughts that come from God. This gift came from God, its not of us. Its not my righteousness its His. I am righteous by faith ..FAITH.. as in saved. Its faith the only way to please Him. If one is worried or think you can lose this gift that only came from a GOD.. how are you walking by faith? This just gets silly.

Some treat Matt-John many things as if Jesus was talking to the Church or Christians. It was only after some time.. where they walked with Him did He say.. ok..if you love me you will keep my words. Has God changed? OT they were not righteous by keeping the law ..but now we are by keeping His words? Hmm.. righteousness by faith in Jesus.. not here to offend.. forgive me.. nor debate or say I am right

 

[BCsenior]

OT they were not righteous by keeping the law ..but now we are by keeping His words?
Hmm.. righteousness by faith in Jesus.. not here to offend.. forgive me.. nor debate or say I am right

I do appreciate your humility ... it is rare on Christian forums.

There's NO way we can compare the OT "believers" with BACs!
BACs are new creations, they have the indwelling Holy Spirit, they have the whole Bible.

Next, how does the logic you use handle all of the NT dire warnings written to the churches?
Almost any answer will be a giant leap up from most of our brothers here in this regard.

I know we've been down this road before ...
but IMO, you haven't progressed in your understanding.