mindlight

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Only here, it doesn't concern families.
It concerns citizens.

How is it logical to refuse people in based on certain criteria, while people that are already in don't even fit the criteria?

It reminds me about a proposal from some nationalistic right wingers in Belgium... That new immigrants should do a "citizens test" and only those that pass get to stay.
They drafted this test and it leaked. A polling organizations then took it to the streets.
Over 60% of native Belgian citizens, failed this test. It makes no sense to expect immigrants to actually know the country and the law of the country BETTER then those who've lived here their entire lives and who are part of families that have lived here for generations.

So it's essentially and fundamentally unfair.

Guess that depends on whether you want to add to the overall level of stupidity in a country or not.

Also the question of fair to whom springs to mind. I used to live in London and the South East of England. The massive numbers of immigrants to that part of the country have massively increased the pressure on the housing stock, driving up prices for the locals. Also wages are deflated for unskilled workers by the large influx. Is that fair on the locals. A proper balance and some control on immigration works better for everybody.
 
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MyOwnSockPuppet

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This issue is more complicated that your partisan party perspective allows. The NHS does ultimately need to be managed efficiently and with a long term perspective that includes training. The bottom line assessment of a business manager in the NHS does however need to be of more than whether or not he met his budget for a single years business plan. The assessment should also be of what costs his actions have transferred on to later business plans. It was the same with the Grenville tower. A 5000 pound saving choosing the wrong kind of cladding cost many lives and made a mockery of the cost efficiencies in the budget.

At this point it's probably worth my pointing out that I used to work in finance for an NHS Trust, so my partisan politics are probably tinged by seeing the actual figures for them, as well as knowing that the long term is basically made up of an indeterminately large number of short terms back-to-back.

Grenfell is a good case in point, the govenment in power at the time the last changes in the building regulations were changed (the incompetent and malevolant party) allowed the flammable cladding and didn't require a sprinkler system, so the local authority (the malevolant and incompetent party) consequently used the flammable cladding and didn't install sprinklers.
 
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Rubiks

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I think that immigration from other countries should be made easier, so that people of all incomes can have access, provided they are screen first. At the same time, I think we should crack down on people entering the country illegally. Bottom line: legal immigration is encouraged, illegal immigration is bad.
 
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apogee

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At this point it's probably worth my pointing out that I used to work in finance for an NHS Trust, so my partisan politics are probably tinged by seeing the actual figures for them, as well as knowing that the long term is basically made up of an indeterminately large number of short terms back-to-back.

I currently work in finance generating the figures for one of those half city NHS Trusts. I’d probably go even further and say that we can only plan twelve months in advance because of the constant changes to the pricing structures.
 
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apogee

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Definitely wandering off topic....erm we’d be lost without all our immigrant staff that work tirelessly for minimal reward.

But at least less backwards countries like Australia, Canada and the US are similarly benefitting from the staff we train, but fail to retain. (Is it sinful to quote your own posts around here?)
 
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Larniavc

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or to encourage more liberal immigration policies?
I think Americans should be allowed to come to the UK if they like.

But only if they can prove they have a job.

I certainly wouldn’t want any of the bad Americans over here.
 
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apogee

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Trump was right. This is just common sense. We can not keep bringing in the 3rd world and not expect us to become 3rd world at some point.

I don't understand why you Native Americans keep saying this, I mean yeah so you got screwed over...you've got your reservations.. Get over it
 
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Kalevalatar

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That countries are what you would call "backward" -- high economic imparity, social injustice, institutionalised racism and inequality -- does not automatically mean that people who leave these poor societies behind are "backward" too. Quite the contrary. It's usually the intelligentsia, the opposition, the dissident class, people with more education, money and thus means to challenge the unfair systems and undemocratic régimes -- not the poor, uneducated and illiterate = the easily manipulated and oppressed -- who have to change scenery for their own and their family's safety and who have the actual means to do that.

As a consequence, the new Finns, the immigrant population in Finland, have more PhDs than ethnic Finns, and it's not like Finns en masse are poorly educated. The Finnish public transportation employees, 45% of whom are born outside Finland, are quite possibly the best educated in the world: they are university lecturers, economists, physicians, lawyers.

The immigrant population's demographic profile is also something to consider: it's more a pyramid than kite. When it comes to the immigrant youth, it would be stupid to complain that they are "backward" and undereducated. Well, duh. Kids aren't born with "an education": what we do is that we give them an education.

As an education-minded society, one of our recent challenges is that we overeducate our human resource and the over-education dilemma is even more pronounced for those foreign-born PhDs. We need to figure out how to translate their skills and education into Finnish labour market. Or more preferably, how to expand Finnish labour market to serve them, which in turn would serve us all. Bus drivers with PhDs is terrible waste of useful recources. At the same time, because of our demographic kite and overeducation, we need blue-collar workers. Again, foreign-born PhDs can't be the answer, or marketing nursing as a preferred career option for immigrant girls (which, sadly, is too common!) instead of, say, career in economics or IT.

We have been there several times before -- and have always found a solution that has propelled our country fast forward and to the top. For example, the post-war situation which saw an "excess" of both the new wartime female labour force and the 500,000 refugees in need of resettling and jobs to support themselves, coupled with the devasting fact of losing one-third of the country's industrial capacity and Europe's richest nickel deposit. Some 20,000 annual immigrants spread over a calendar year is hardly something we can't handle. We have an excellent support system already in place. It's obviously different in backward countries like the United States where they still can't or won't even take care of their own citizens.
 
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Bio-Luminescent Billy

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As a consequence, the new Finns, the immigrant population in Finland, have more PhDs than ethnic Finns, and it's not like Finns en masse are poorly educated. The Finnish public transportation employees, 45% of whom are born outside Finland, are quite possibly the best educated in the world: they are university lecturers, economists, physicians, lawyers.

Dollars to donuts, that's because of diversity hiring policies and has nothing to do with merit.

The immigrant population's demographic profile is also something to consider: it's more a pyramid than kite. When it comes to the immigrant youth, it would be stupid to complain that they are "backward" and undereducated. Well, duh. Kids aren't born with "an education": what we do is that we give them an education.

60% of the migrant crisis invaders are unaccompanied military aged males.

View media item 58496
Some 20,000 annual immigrants spread over a calendar year is hardly something we can't handle. We have an excellent support system already in place. It's obviously different in backward countries like the United States where they still can't or won't even take care of their own citizens.

How many calender years?
 
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Bio-Luminescent Billy

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I think Americans should be allowed to come to the UK if they like.

But only if they can prove they have a job.

I certainly wouldn’t want any of the bad Americans over here.

Why would I want to migrate to the UK?
 
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