Back at It again.

[now faith]

No sin confession is required if we trust Jesus destroyed remembrance of sins by his one sacrifice-Hebrews10:3.

I agree if we confess our sins he is just to forgive us.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Confessing sins shows that we know what is sin. And when Jesus destroyed the ml-eph2:15, the knowledge of what sin is, is also destroyed as such a knowledge comes from ml-rom3:20. So sin confessions show that the confessor has not yet renounced ml. Which means he does not trust Jesus wholly.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Confessing sins shows that we know what is sin.

A adulterer (for example, or any other sinner) knows what sin is. They haven't "confessed [their] sins."

And when Jesus destroyed the ml-eph2:15, the knowledge of what sin is, is also destroyed as such a knowledge comes from ml-rom3:20.

Could you tell me what sin is? What do you mean by destroy?

So sin confessions show that the confessor has not yet renounced ml. Which means he does not trust Jesus wholly.

I see no command in the Bible to renounce the Law. I see that we are no longer under the Law (which still exists for those who choose to be bound by it).

Let me ask what you mean by "trust Jesus wholly?" I know many Reformed believers who trust Jesus but still think they have to follow the Law.

 

[Si_monfaith]

They haven't confessed not becz they do not know they have violated but becz of suppression of conscience which reminds them of violation of ml-heb10:3.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Sin is violating what the knowledge of gud & evil (sin) that comes from ml says thru conscience. When adam chose ml, it was downloaded into his mind. His offsprings are born in that state. Destroy means remove the data of what sin is.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Renounce means to believe that Jesus destroyed the ml with whom man eloped with, from eden onwards & restored the wife (mankind) to him-rom7:1-4 by his death.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Reformed cud understand difference between law & love. Law says without love for God&man brings curse. Grace says it is Christ who loves thru us. We love not to be saved but becz we are. We love as it is joyful & not to earn blessings or salvation.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Trust Jesus wholly means expecting to be blessed & saved only becz of Jesus' goodness & works & never ours.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Sin is violating what the knowledge of gud & evil (sin) that comes from ml says thru conscience. When adam chose ml, it was downloaded into his mind. His offsprings are born in that state. Destroy means remove the data of what sin is.

Your argument falls apart here.

Sin is that which is contrary to God's holiness, or his perfect will.

Moral law did not exist in the time of Adam. All that existed then was relationship with the Father. God told him not to eat of the tree and Adam did what was contrary to God's will for him. That was sin. It had nothing to do with the moral law.

If destroy means getting rid of the data [may I say knowledge?] of sin, then nothing has been destroyed. In fact, the bible says that the knowledge of sin remains in all of us. What does occur (what it says in the verse you quoted where you put in the word 'destroy') is that the knowledge of sin is nullified in us. In other words, the knowledge of sin has no effect because we have been perfected in Christ. 1 John 3:9 tells us that we cannot sin because we are born of God. This is the root that I think you are getting at, but your word choice is creating quite a different picture.

In Romans 7 Paul covers this very topic:

14 For we know that the law is spiritual - but I am unspiritual, sold into slavery to sin. 15 For I don't understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want - instead, I do what I hate. 16 But if I do what I don't want, I agree that the law is good. 17 But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. 18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me.
Rom 7:14-20 (NET)​

Sin most certainly exists. The knowledge of sin most certainly is on Paul. He knows he is acting in sin. He knows he shouldn't. But he also knows that it is not him (spirit man) but rather sin that is in him (carnal man). The sin knowledge has NOT been destroyed. But the effect of the sin knowledge has been nullified.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Trust Jesus wholly means expecting to be blessed & saved only becz of Jesus' goodness & works & never ours.

Ok. The Reformed believe this (and in an extreme way more than the charismatic does). So again, your argument does not hold up to examination.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Renounce means to believe that Jesus destroyed the ml with whom man eloped with, from eden onwards & restored the wife (mankind) to him-rom7:1-4 by his death.

Except that (1) the moral law was not in Eden and (2) Jesus did not destroy the moral law, He nullified it in our lives.

Perhaps our definitions are disjoint: define for me your understanding of "moral law."

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Hmm.

Reformed cud understand difference between law & love.

I think they do. They simply still embrace parts of the law that they think are not a part of what Jesus nullified.

Law says without love for God&man brings curse.

No.

Today I invoke heaven and earth as a witness against you that I have set life and death, blessing and curse, before you. Therefore choose life so that you and your descendants may live!
Deut 30:19 (NET)​

The curse was set before us. We choose either the blessing or curse. We choose life or death. Freewill. God even gives us a hint: Choose life!

The curse comes to a man through his choice. We can choose to walk in God's blessing (prosperity: health, joy, peace, etc. see Deut 28:1-14) or we can choose to walk in the curse (sickness, disease, etc. see Deut 28:15+).

So one can love God, yet choose to walk in the curse. It is not God's best for the man, for God wills that we walk in the blessing: that we choose life.

Grace says it is Christ who loves thru us.

Grace is God's propensity to ignore our sin and our failures and love us anyway. Certainly part of God's grace is that Christ's love is in us and can be expressed through us.

We love not to be saved but becz we are. We love as it is joyful & not to earn blessings or salvation.

Agree on both points.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Trust Jesus wholly means expecting to be blessed & saved only becz of Jesus' goodness & works & never ours.

We are not saved because of Jesus' goodness and works. We are saved because we accept the perfect Gift that He offers us.

To say that you have no part in your salvation is a Calvinistic concept. This speaks of the elect. This is NOT a Word/Faith concept.

We are blessed because we receive the blessing; or as I like to say it, we walk in the blessing and not in the curse. We choose the blessing as Deut 30:19 says. It is our choice. Now Jesus certainly has offered us the blessing. Remember that Abraham was blessed and he did not know the name of Jesus (although it was Jesus who blessed him). I'm splitting hairs here, but I think the subtlety is important.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Si_monfaith, could I ask that you use the "Reply" button and quote the post that you are comment/answering about? It is sometimes difficult to see what you are commenting about. It would help the conversation. God bless you!

 

[Si_monfaith]

A person who knows & says that not our works but Jesus' gudness & works alone blesses & saves has indeed accepted & received the salvation and blessings.
A person who hears & knows Jesus' love will certainly speak for a person speaks from his heart which is full.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Love becomes a ml when it is prescribed that loving God&man brings blessings & not loving them brings curses.
Ml is compared to a dead husband-rom7:1-4. Similarly law is dead & Jesus has made us his own. In such a scenario sin is dead too-rom7:8. So for those who trust in Jesus' love by which he rendered law dead by his death, sin is dead, God sees them as having no knowledge of sin-rom3:20 (for Christ's sake) & they cannot transgress-rom4:15.

 

[Hieronymus]

You guys sure have many words (of faith)

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Love becomes a ml when it is prescribed that loving God&man brings blessings & not loving them brings curses.
Ml is compared to a dead husband-rom7:1-4. Similarly law is dead & Jesus has made us his own.

No. Verse 6 is quite clear:

But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.
Rom 7:6 (NET)​

It doesn't say the law is dead. It doesn't say the law was destroyed.

It says we are released from the law. Scripture tells us that the law is nullified in our lives. Our carnal man has died to the law, but the law is still there. Jesus told us that not one jot nor tittle will pass from the law until the end. The law is very much still around for those who choose to place themselves under its control.

In such a scenario sin is dead too-rom7:8.

Verse 8 says that without the law sin was dead.

In Romans 5 it says:

for before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there is no accounting for sin when there is no law.
Rom 5:13 (NET)​

In other words, sin was not imputed to us without the law, for there was measure by which man could live other than God's perfection, which sinful man could never live up to .

It took the law to make sin imputable. To make us accountable for our sin.

So for those who trust in Jesus' love by which he rendered law dead by his death, sin is dead, God sees them as having no knowledge of sin-rom3:20 (for Christ's sake) & they cannot transgress-rom4:15.

Jesus didn't render the law dead. He nullified it. The law if very much still here for those who don't accept Jesus, or for the Christians who willfully place themselves under the law.

Yes, by Jesus sacrifice and our acceptance of that gift we are no longer under the law and sin is dead to us. Yes, we cannot transgress -- look to 1 John 3:9 as well.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Far better than sin confession it is knowing & trusting Jesus' love by which he delivered us from moral law helps us enjoy the rest which Jesus promised.

 

[Si_monfaith]

When the word about Jesus' love is proclaimed thru speech or writing, Jesus produces faith in the heart of the hearers & they go forth to trust in him.