Bachmann's Scientific Illiteracy.

DieHappy

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Adverse Events Linked To HPV Vaccine - Health News Story - WCVB Boston

VAERS records show that there was an average of 53.9 reports per 100,000 vaccine doses distributed. Six percent were serious, including 32 deaths. Merck, the company that makes Gardasil, stands by its safety and effectiveness.


AFP: Spain withdraws cervical cancer shot after illnesses

A batch of nearly 76,000 doses of the human papillomavirus vaccine (HPV) was withdrawn from market, a government statement said, after two girls in the eastern Valencia region fell seriously ill hours after receiving them.
"One of the girls got out of intensive care this weekend and the other is still there.


Death toll linked to Gardasil vaccine rises

A Judicial Watch report said, "Even though Gardasil will not be fully tested for safety until 2009, physicians are already pushing it as a routine, harmless vaccine. Merck's aggressive advertisement campaign tells young girls that their lives could be 'one less' affected by cervical cancer and that, 'It's your turn to help guard against cervical cancer.'"
The report also estimated it will cost as much as $2 billion to buy vaccinations for the nation's poorest girls.
"This vaccine will be more expensive than all other childhood vaccines put together," concluded John Schiller, a National Cancer Institute investigator.






Alert over jab for girls as two die following cervical cancer vaccination | Mail Online

A jab that could be given to hundreds of thousands of schoolgirls this autumn was at the centre at a safety scare last night following the deaths of two young women.
European regulators are investigating the "sudden and unexpected" deaths of the women who received Gardasil, one of two jabs to protect against cervical cancer licensed for use in the UK.






Gardasil Researcher Speaks Out

The rate of serious adverse events on par with the death rate of cervical cancer. Gardasil has been associated with at least as many serious adverse events as there are deaths from cervical cancer developing each year. Indeed, the risks of vaccination are underreported in Slade's article, as they are based on a denominator of doses distributed from Merck's warehouse. Up to a third of those doses may be in refrigerators waiting to be dispensed as the autumn onslaught of vaccine messages is sent home to parents the first day of school. Should the denominator in Dr. Slade's work be adjusted to account for this, and then divided by three for the number of women who would receive all three doses, the incidence rate of serious adverse events increases up to five fold. How does a parent value that information," said Harper.
 
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Drekkan85

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DieHappy - two of your sources are WND and whale.to - both known for being home to extreme quakery and nutbars.

As for the rest - they're awful long on news jingoism and awfully short on, you know, actually reviewed scientific data and study. Compared with the years in development required to get approved which showed the drug as safe.

Years of rigorous double blind study... or some random anecdotes in a newspaper written by people who couldn't find their rear ends with both hands (when it comes to science), tough call...
 
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variant

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Measles, smallpox are not caused by risky behaviors, so the comparison fails. If you engage in risky behavior, you should accept the risks yourself

I didn't make a comparison. Iradication of communicable diseases helps everyone.

The state can make behaviors less risky in this case. Why shoulden't it?
 
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DieHappy

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I don't know what whale.to is, that's just what came up when I googled the quote by Harper, a lead researcher for Merck.

But be sure to dismiss the Vaers data as well. In favor of all the research you've never actually seen but are assuming is above board. Because the FDA approved it. Using the same methods they used to approved Celebrex for use in children. 2 weeks before it was pulled from the shelves because of all the people dying from it.
 
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DieHappy

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For anyone still confused about correlation vs causation, I present you with the classic example:

Studies have found that there is a strong correlation between ice cream consumption and murder.

Does this mean that ice cream causes murder?

The answer is no, heat leads to both increased ice cream consumption and violent crime as a result of the agitation caused by excessive heat.

Actually there is quite a bit of data showing sugar consumption as a child increases violent behavior as an adult.

I didn't make a comparison. Iradication of communicable diseases helps everyone.

The state can make behaviors less risky in this case. Why shoulden't it?

I'm quite sure you, nor anyone else in this thread arguing for mandatory vaccines, has EVER said in an abortion discussion that the woman has a right to do with her own body what she pleases, right?

Right?

Sure....
 
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variant

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I'm quite sure you, nor anyone else in this thread arguing for mandatory vaccines, has EVER said in an abortion discussion that the woman has a right to do with her own body what she pleases, right?

Right?

Sure....

You're comparing abortions to (optional) childhood vaccinations? :D

You guys are trippy.
 
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Incariol

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Actually there is quite a bit of data showing sugar consumption as a child increases violent behavior as an adult.

Considering sugar consumption is necessary for life, that would be a strange thing to conclude. Cite?
 
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Redac

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I'm quite sure you, nor anyone else in this thread arguing for mandatory vaccines, has EVER said in an abortion discussion that the woman has a right to do with her own body what she pleases, right?

Right?

Sure....
Are you suggesting that pregnancy is a communicable disease?
 
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chaz345

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You're comparing abortions to (optional) childhood vaccinations? :D

You guys are trippy.

It's a very valid comparison when one considers that the argument for allowing abortion is that he's her body and her medical choice. Why is it not the parent's choice about vaccinating their kids or not since they (not the government) are the one's legally and medically responsible for the kid?
 
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variant

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It's a very valid comparison when one considers that the argument for allowing abortion is that he's her body and her medical choice. Why is it not the parent's choice about vaccinating their kids or not since they (not the government) are the one's legally and medically responsible for the kid?

It is the parents choice because they are ultimately responsible. The vaccinations we are talking about allow the parents to opt out.

Since children generally don't decide on vaccinations, and an abortion position doesn’t commit one to say that the children SHOULD get to decide, so it is a very poor comparison.

Simply put, a pro-choice position dosen't commit anyone to say that children must be allowed to choose their own vacnations, that is just silly.

So, if I could get back to my origional question which no one seems to be capable of answering without derailing.

Why shoulden't the state try to lower peoples risks with vaccinations?
 
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variant

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Because it's forcibly injecting foreign material into my body.

Just keep digging.


Are you really going to argue that parents shouldn’t control the vaccinations of their children?


Weren't you just talking about adverse effects up yonder? Do you know that your argument, taken to its rather odd logical conclusion means that you think pregnancies can be terminated because of their proclivities for adverse effects?
 
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DieHappy

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You have to be purposefully missing the point.

I'm advocating for liberty. Parents should have the right to decide on vaccinations, not the state. You claim the state should force it because it would result in lower risk, yet when abortion is the topic you claim the woman's body is sacrosanct. (My position holds that the fetus is a person and deserves the same liberty as the woman - before you go accusing me of hypocrisy.)

Why is the child's body not sacrosanct? We can abuse it for the greater good? Even for a presumed greater good in the face of evidence that the benefits do not outweigh the risks and the protection wears off in a mere 5 years?
 
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TerranceL

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Figures she'd go after Perry for something he did right... and leave a trail of misconceptions and lies in her wake.

News Desk: Bachmann’s Political Contagion : The New Yorker




Thoughts?

The new yorker lies when it says anybody can opt out. The program said that the only people who could opt out were those who could provide in writing religious reasons. If you couldn't provide those reasons you didn't get a say in what happened to your child.

Perry also lied when he claimed he had a change of mind on the whole issue and that's why it never happened.

He fought long and hard to make sure this happened, then when it became obvious that it would wreck him politically he had a change of heart.
 
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MachZer0

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I didn't make a comparison. Iradication of communicable diseases helps everyone.

The state can make behaviors less risky in this case. Why shoulden't it?
The point is that this thread is about eradicating a preventable disease.
 
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Umaro

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I always find Americans stances on science disheartening. When it lines up with their beliefs it's fine, when it doesn't it's a conspiracy.

Scientists studying HPV highly recommend a vaccine that strongly protects? Government conspiracy. "how dare you tell me what to do with my body."

Scientists studying HPV say circumcision might help a little but don't recommend it? "With solid evidence like that, how could I not force on my child what he should do with his body?
 
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SonOfTheWest

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I always find Americans stances on science disheartening. When it lines up with their beliefs it's fine, when it doesn't it's a conspiracy.

Scientists studying HPV highly recommend a vaccine that strongly protects? Government conspiracy. "how dare you tell me what to do with my body."

Scientists studying HPV say circumcision might help a little but don't recommend it? "With solid evidence like that, how could I not force on my child what he should do with his body?

I'll echo this statement and also say....the fact that a woman that vacuous and so lacking in basic understanding of science is a contender for U.S. President is a poor statement on America as a whole. That Rick Perry even apparently had to defend vaccinating children against a form of cancer like that is absolutely insane.
 
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