Babies are still murdered here

98cwitr

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From Apologia Ministries, this documentary exposes and shows the need for God to be the center of the abortion debate, how National Right For Life turned down talks of abolition, and discouraged a Christ-centric approach to outlawing abortion.

Really worth the watch:


Do not be ashamed to call abortion what it is: Murder.
 

brinny

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Murder of babies is against the law in the USA.

The "trick", however is to call the li'l ones anything BUT babies, isn't it?

Just as other have been dehumanized all throughout the past (Jewish during the Holocaust, and slavery of Black peoples, etc.)

So it is with babies now.

Borrowing from a quote in the OP:

"Do not be ashamed to call abortion what it is: Murder."

Abort-mord-D-Bonhoeffer.png
 
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joshua 1 9

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Great video! If it is murder, then it should be punishable by law as well!
The real issue is that the Baby is in Heaven hoping that his or her mother will come to a saving knowledge of the truth so that they can be reconciled.
 
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Jonaitis

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The real issue is that the Baby is in Heaven hoping that his or her mother will come to a saving knowledge of the truth so that they can be reconciled.

It is not mine to call, but may God save them and may justice still be upheld. We need a justice system in our society, we cannot let everyone off the hook because we want them saved. We can have both, a desire and effort for them to be saved and that justice may shine through.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Great video! If it is murder, then it should be punishable by law as well!
Yes, that is why Jesus went to go to Calvery. " For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 12:2)
 
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joshua 1 9

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We need a justice system in our society
Man's law is not God's law. Man's justice is not God's Justice. God is a God of absolute and perfect Justice. He has impressed that upon me many times. We can see this when we see the delicate balance and how fine tuned the Universe is. We can see the precision of God. My son is very advanced in math and I am amazed that he can come up with a simple formula for just about anything. For example we can look at the spindown rate to the earth and the recending rate of the moon. These two forces converge at a point that is moving in time and in space. Because they were caused by one event with the Earth and the Moon had a collision.
316075_868b802155cefdcb645a670c7c4ef25c.png
 

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Jonaitis

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Man's law is not God's law. Man's justice is not God's Justice. God is a God of absolute and perfect Justice. He has impressed that upon me many times. We can see this when we see the delicate balance and how fine tuned the Universe is. We can see the precision of God. My son is very advanced in math and I am amazed that he can come up with a simple formula for just about anything.

Joshua, should we decriminalize all forms of murder, thievery and vandalism?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Joshua, should we decriminalize all forms of murder, thievery and vandalism?
We can go before the Throne of God. Not everyone has that option. "For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer." (Romans 13:3,4)
 
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RDKirk

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The real issue is that the Baby is in Heaven hoping that his or her mother will come to a saving knowledge of the truth so that they can be reconciled.

The important point your statement reveals is that the persons in true danger are not the babies, but the mothers.

And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul. Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. -- Matthew 10

And let me interject that in the United States, 70 percent of abortions are by women who profess Christ.

If the Church could just stop abortions among Christian women--just among Christian women--that would reduce abortions by 70%!

We as the Body of Christ should work on ways to guide Christian women off the paths that lead to an abortion decision in the first place. Why have they become pregnant with a child they don't want? What could have been done to avoid the first step on that path?

Or, if she is pregnant, what can we do to change the premises of her decision-making process? What are her objections to bearing the child, and ow can we lovingly mitigate them?

Because we have to remember: The baby is not at risk. The mother is at risk.
 
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AvisG

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this documentary exposes and shows the need for God to be the center of the abortion debate,
It's difficult to say that God should be the "center" of a debate when one of the sides either completely rejects God or at least completely rejects the other side's understanding of Him. I really don't even believe that talk of "God" belongs in the debate.

We anti-abortion folks (and no one is more anti-abortion than I) can certainly believe that God is aghast at the abortion holocaust and that vigorously opposing abortion is doing His will, but this is an internal matter - our motivation for doing what we do to oppose abortion. It's almost entirely irrelevant to the other side and thus to the debate itself.

Likewise, calling the fetus a "baby," an "unborn child" or a "person" is also largely irrelevant and (I believe) unduly inflammatory. Everyone knows that it is, at a minimum and from the moment of conception, an incipient human being. It isn't a gallbladder or a wisdom tooth.

The anti-abortion argument (I believe) has to focus on arguments that at least are within the worldly frame of reference of the pro-abortion folks. Things like "viability" now being much earlier than when Roe v. Wade was decided; the devastating psychological effects on women who choose abortion; the unfairness of abortion to the incipient human being when there are so many alternatives to becoming pregnant in the first place; the availability of adoption, etc.

I've never been completely sure what the pro-abortion movement was really about. With so many alternatives to becoming pregnant in the first place, and even much less grisly alternatives to terminating a pregnancy than a mid- or late-term abortion, it's always struck me as unlikely that so many women were actually all that concerned about preserving the availability of abortion. It seems to me that "abortion" is really just a code word for the angry feminist notion that no man (even the father of the child) is going to tell ME what I can do with MY body or any other aspect of MY life. If this is the case, any reasoned argument against abortion is likely to fall on deaf ears.

The "God" and "baby murder" arguments against abortion seem to me counterproductive, in the sense of making it easier for the pro-abortion forces to dismiss anti-abortionists as shrieking "religious cranks" who are out of touch with modern values.

If I had no religious beliefs at all, it seems to me that I'd be almost as aghast as I am now at the notion of a supposedly civilized society thinking it was OK to rip tens of millions of incipient human beings from the womb as though they were gallbladders and had no dignity or worth at all. It strikes me as something we might have been more likely to expect from the ancient Aztecs or Mayans. I'm not sure how to communicate this sense of horror to those who regard an abortion as little more than a tonsillectomy and as representative of a larger feminist agenda, but I'm pretty sure that talking about God isn't an effective way to do it.
 
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98cwitr

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It's difficult to say that God should be the "center" of a debate when one of the sides either completely rejects God or at least completely rejects the other side's understanding of Him. I really don't even believe that talk of "God" belongs in the debate.

We anti-abortion folks (and no one is more anti-abortion than I) can certainly believe that God is aghast at the abortion holocaust and that vigorously opposing abortion is doing His will, but this is an internal matter - our motivation for doing what we do to oppose abortion. It's almost entirely irrelevant to the other side and thus to the debate itself.

Likewise, calling the fetus a "baby," an "unborn child" or a "person" is also largely irrelevant and (I believe) unduly inflammatory. Everyone knows that it is, at a minimum and from the moment of conception, an incipient human being. It isn't a gallbladder or a wisdom tooth.

The anti-abortion argument (I believe) has to focus on arguments that at least are within the worldly frame of reference of the pro-abortion folks. Things like "viability" now being much earlier than when Roe v. Wade was decided; the devastating psychological effects on women who choose abortion; the unfairness of abortion to the incipient human being when there are so many alternatives to becoming pregnant in the first place; the availability of adoption, etc.

I've never been completely sure what the pro-abortion movement was really about. With so many alternatives to becoming pregnant in the first place, and even much less grisly alternatives to terminating a pregnancy than a mid- or late-term abortion, it's always struck me as unlikely that so many women were actually all that concerned about preserving the availability of abortion. It seems to me that "abortion" is really just a code word for the angry feminist notion that no man (even the father of the child) is going to tell ME what I can do with MY body or any other aspect of MY life. If this is the case, any reasoned argument against abortion is likely to fall on deaf ears.

The "God" and "baby murder" arguments against abortion seem to me counterproductive, in the sense of making it easier for the pro-abortion forces to dismiss anti-abortionists as shrieking "religious cranks" who are out of touch with modern values.

If I had no religious beliefs at all, it seems to me that I'd be almost as aghast as I am now at the notion of a supposedly civilized society thinking it was OK to rip tens of millions of incipient human beings from the womb as though they were gallbladders and had no dignity or worth at all. It strikes me as something we might have been more likely to expect from the ancient Aztecs or Mayans. I'm not sure how to communicate this sense of horror to those who regard an abortion as little more than a tonsillectomy and as representative of a larger feminist agenda, but I'm pretty sure that talking about God isn't an effective way to do it.

I do hope you will find time to watch the video (it's not short). It addresses your points directly.
 
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SkyWriting

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From Apologia Ministries, this documentary exposes and shows the need for God to be the center of the abortion debate, how National Right For Life turned down talks of abolition, and discouraged a Christ-centric approach to outlawing abortion.

Really worth the watch:

Do not be ashamed to call abortion what it is: Murder.

With the coming technology, every Pro-Life supporter, man or woman, will have an artificial womb implanted in them and any unwanted baby can be transferred into their care for permanent adoption. Adoption save babies from murder. This transfer will be easy and painless. Pro-Life surrogates will be mandated by law to save every baby.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Why have they become pregnant with a child they don't want?
These girls are very young. 12 & 13 years old. Usually women do not get this figured out until much later. Like in their 30's.That is why the older women are to teach and train the younger women. Right now the supreme court is giving them internet inappropriate content to be their teacher.
 
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RDKirk

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These girls are very young. 12 & 13 years old. Usually women do not get this figured out until much later. Like in their 30's.That is why the older women are to teach and train the younger women. Right now the supreme court is giving them internet inappropriate content to be their teacher.

That doesn't seem to be the general case.

In the same year, women aged 20–24 accounted for the largest proportion of abortions (34%) and had the highest abortion rate (28 per 1,000 women in this age-group) among all age-groups studied. Women aged 25–29 had the second highest rate at 22.8 per 1,000. In 2014, adolescents aged 15–19 accounted for just 12% of all abortions. The abortion rate among adolescents declined 46% between 2008 and 2014, the steepest decline of any demographic group over this period.

Abortion Is a Common Experience for U.S. Women, Despite Dramatic Declines in Rates
 
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joshua 1 9

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That doesn't seem to be the general case.
When I was picketing at the abortion mills that is what I saw when I was there. Even the abortionists claimed they were showing compassion for these young girls that had no one else to turn to for help. Of course it was a lie that they girls had no where else to go for help. If they want to give life to their baby then they can be placed in a foster home and all of their bills will be paid for. Their foster parents will provide all of their transportation for them. Some feel that is their ministry to help these young girls.
 
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From Apologia Ministries, this documentary exposes and shows the need for God to be the center of the abortion debate, how National Right For Life turned down talks of abolition, and discouraged a Christ-centric approach to outlawing abortion.

Really worth the watch:


Do not be ashamed to call abortion what it is: Murder.
The children of God do not abort their children
so do you understand what I am saying to you?
 
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