Authority in the Christian Church

[Chipsj15]

I have spent a lot of time discussing theology with Roman Catholics, since I was born and raised Roman Catholic but have left that faith on account of their doctrine and dogma. Thus, that brings me to a few questions that I have been reflecting on for a while now.

During these discussions with Roman Catholic (RC) missionaries (including priests I have talked to) we often approach the subject of authority, specifically authority of God's word and direction of His people. In fact, this is one of the biggest issues between RCs and Reformed Christians today. The RC church teaches that the ultimate authority of God's Word comes from the Magisterium, which consists of the pope and bishops.

So my questions are as follows:

1) If the pope is the only person who can interpret Scripture, then wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the pope alone has the ultimate authority over Scripture? If not one of God's children, except for the pope, has the authority to interpret Scripture nor reveal what Scripture teaches, then it seems to me that the pope alone is above Scripture.

2) If the pope truly is the only person who can interpret and reveal the truth about Scripture that all layman are unable to do themselves, then what holds the pope accountable? It can't be Scripture because he is the only one who can interpret and reveal the truth of Scripture. It can't be any other human being because only the pope can speak "ex cathedra." The way I see it, there is literally nothing that can correct the pope. If you say that the Holy Spirit guides the pope into all truth, that still doesn't answer the question of accountability since it is he who is "guided by the Spirit" that reveals what the Spirit guided him to. If that makes sense.


So there you have it, those are my two questions for now. I would love to see dialogue between both parties because I know this isn't a simple straight forward question to answer. I will be on and off CF on account of being busy, but I still wanted to ask this question. Also, if I am not correct on anything regarding the RC doctrine and dogma, I humbly apologize now and would love for you to correct me. Thank you for all responses!

In Christ

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I have spent a lot of time discussing theology with Roman Catholics, since I was born and raised Roman Catholic but have left that faith on account of their doctrine and dogma. Thus, that brings me to a few questions that I have been reflecting on for a while now.

During these discussions with Roman Catholic (RC) missionaries (including priests I have talked to) we often approach the subject of authority, specifically authority of God's word and direction of His people. In fact, this is one of the biggest issues between RCs and Reformed Christians today. The RC church teaches that the ultimate authority of God's Word comes from the Magisterium, which consists of the pope and bishops.

So my questions are as follows:

1) If the pope is the only person who can interpret Scripture, then wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the pope alone has the ultimate authority over Scripture? If not one of God's children, except for the pope, has the authority to interpret Scripture nor reveal what Scripture teaches, then it seems to me that the pope alone is above Scripture.

2) If the pope truly is the only person who can interpret and reveal the truth about Scripture that all layman are unable to do themselves, then what holds the pope accountable? It can't be Scripture because he is the only one who can interpret and reveal the truth of Scripture. It can't be any other human being because only the pope can speak "ex cathedra." The way I see it, there is literally nothing that can correct the pope. If you say that the Holy Spirit guides the pope into all truth, that still doesn't answer the question of accountability since it is he who is "guided by the Spirit" that reveals what the Spirit guided him to. If that makes sense.


So there you have it, those are my two questions for now. I would love to see dialogue between both parties because I know this isn't a simple straight forward question to answer. I will be on and off CF on account of being busy, but I still wanted to ask this question. Also, if I am not correct on anything regarding the RC doctrine and dogma, I humbly apologize now and would love for you to correct me. Thank you for all responses!

In Christ

According to the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered


Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

According to the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered


Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."

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woah that's scary..... I realize the power of the Pope position in the church isn't what it once was..but figured it was lesser then that.

 

[frienden thalord]

I have spent a lot of time discussing theology with Roman Catholics, since I was born and raised Roman Catholic but have left that faith on account of their doctrine and dogma. Thus, that brings me to a few questions that I have been reflecting on for a while now.

During these discussions with Roman Catholic (RC) missionaries (including priests I have talked to) we often approach the subject of authority, specifically authority of God's word and direction of His people. In fact, this is one of the biggest issues between RCs and Reformed Christians today. The RC church teaches that the ultimate authority of God's Word comes from the Magisterium, which consists of the pope and bishops.

So my questions are as follows:

1) If the pope is the only person who can interpret Scripture, then wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the pope alone has the ultimate authority over Scripture? If not one of God's children, except for the pope, has the authority to interpret Scripture nor reveal what Scripture teaches, then it seems to me that the pope alone is above Scripture.

2) If the pope truly is the only person who can interpret and reveal the truth about Scripture that all layman are unable to do themselves, then what holds the pope accountable? It can't be Scripture because he is the only one who can interpret and reveal the truth of Scripture. It can't be any other human being because only the pope can speak "ex cathedra." The way I see it, there is literally nothing that can correct the pope. If you say that the Holy Spirit guides the pope into all truth, that still doesn't answer the question of accountability since it is he who is "guided by the Spirit" that reveals what the Spirit guided him to. If that makes sense.


So there you have it, those are my two questions for now. I would love to see dialogue between both parties because I know this isn't a simple straight forward question to answer. I will be on and off CF on account of being busy, but I still wanted to ask this question. Also, if I am not correct on anything regarding the RC doctrine and dogma, I humbly apologize now and would love for you to correct me. Thank you for all responses!

In Christ

This is why the pope can preach interfaith and none does question his authority.
And worse the faiths are uniting back home to rome. as are the other religions.
talk about a one worldreligion. ITS began. its truly began and its a monster.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I have spent a lot of time discussing theology with Roman Catholics, since I was born and raised Roman Catholic but have left that faith on account of their doctrine and dogma. Thus, that brings me to a few questions that I have been reflecting on for a while now.

During these discussions with Roman Catholic (RC) missionaries (including priests I have talked to) we often approach the subject of authority, specifically authority of God's word and direction of His people. In fact, this is one of the biggest issues between RCs and Reformed Christians today. The RC church teaches that the ultimate authority of God's Word comes from the Magisterium, which consists of the pope and bishops.

So my questions are as follows:

1) If the pope is the only person who can interpret Scripture, then wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the pope alone has the ultimate authority over Scripture? If not one of God's children, except for the pope, has the authority to interpret Scripture nor reveal what Scripture teaches, then it seems to me that the pope alone is above Scripture.

2) If the pope truly is the only person who can interpret and reveal the truth about Scripture that all layman are unable to do themselves, then what holds the pope accountable? It can't be Scripture because he is the only one who can interpret and reveal the truth of Scripture. It can't be any other human being because only the pope can speak "ex cathedra." The way I see it, there is literally nothing that can correct the pope. If you say that the Holy Spirit guides the pope into all truth, that still doesn't answer the question of accountability since it is he who is "guided by the Spirit" that reveals what the Spirit guided him to. If that makes sense.


So there you have it, those are my two questions for now. I would love to see dialogue between both parties because I know this isn't a simple straight forward question to answer. I will be on and off CF on account of being busy, but I still wanted to ask this question. Also, if I am not correct on anything regarding the RC doctrine and dogma, I humbly apologize now and would love for you to correct me. Thank you for all responses!

In Christ

According to the Roman Catholic Church interpretation of Matthew 16:18, the Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, the first Pope

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

woah that's scary..... I realize the power of the Pope position in the church isn't what it once was..but figured it was lesser then that.

There is nothing in the New Testament that supports any believer having authority over another. Believers have authority over sickness, disease and demons but not over other believers that these should obey without question. The Early Church had a team of elders running the church. This was a position of responsibility and oversight and discipline was only used in the face of gross sins that might have brought the Church into disrepute. The rot started to creep in when one elder decided that he was to be the "senior pastor" which ultimately led to the Bishop of Rome deciding that he was the "senior bishop" of the Church and all the other bishops be subject to his authority. This lead to the evolution of the Popes of Rome. But the office and authority of the Pope is not supported in the New Testament. It came about through the politics of the time when the Church needed to reign in those emperors who wanted to make decisions and run their countries independent of the Church. The Pope of the time used his power and influence to exert his authority by threatening to excommunicate anyone who defied it. Excommunication in those times made a person persona non gratis in that he was cut right out of society, forced out of his employment and into poverty. Also, the Inquisition targeted those who refused to comply and made it a capital offence to resist the authority of Rome. That fear caused compliance with the authority of the Pope in Rome right through to the Reformation and Martin Luther. It was fortunate for Henry VIII that England was powerful enough and isolated by the English Channel to be able to get away with breaking from Rome and forming the Church of England.

 

[Aiden236]

According to the Roman Catholic Church interpretation of Matthew 16:18, the Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, the first Pope

Can you show proof where the "clearly knew he was the pope"?

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I have spent a lot of time discussing theology with Roman Catholics, since I was born and raised Roman Catholic but have left that faith on account of their doctrine and dogma. Thus, that brings me to a few questions that I have been reflecting on for a while now.

During these discussions with Roman Catholic (RC) missionaries (including priests I have talked to) we often approach the subject of authority, specifically authority of God's word and direction of His people. In fact, this is one of the biggest issues between RCs and Reformed Christians today. The RC church teaches that the ultimate authority of God's Word comes from the Magisterium, which consists of the pope and bishops.

So my questions are as follows:

1) If the pope is the only person who can interpret Scripture, then wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the pope alone has the ultimate authority over Scripture? If not one of God's children, except for the pope, has the authority to interpret Scripture nor reveal what Scripture teaches, then it seems to me that the pope alone is above Scripture.

2) If the pope truly is the only person who can interpret and reveal the truth about Scripture that all layman are unable to do themselves, then what holds the pope accountable? It can't be Scripture because he is the only one who can interpret and reveal the truth of Scripture. It can't be any other human being because only the pope can speak "ex cathedra." The way I see it, there is literally nothing that can correct the pope. If you say that the Holy Spirit guides the pope into all truth, that still doesn't answer the question of accountability since it is he who is "guided by the Spirit" that reveals what the Spirit guided him to. If that makes sense.


So there you have it, those are my two questions for now. I would love to see dialogue between both parties because I know this isn't a simple straight forward question to answer. I will be on and off CF on account of being busy, but I still wanted to ask this question. Also, if I am not correct on anything regarding the RC doctrine and dogma, I humbly apologize now and would love for you to correct me. Thank you for all responses!

In Christ

The Roman Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16:18 - Jesus’ church means the community that he will gather and that, like a building, will have Peter as its solid foundation.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Can you show proof where the "clearly knew he was the pope"?

Unfortunately, I cannot....I am not a member of the Roman Catholic Church

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I have spent a lot of time discussing theology with Roman Catholics, since I was born and raised Roman Catholic but have left that faith on account of their doctrine and dogma. Thus, that brings me to a few questions that I have been reflecting on for a while now.

During these discussions with Roman Catholic (RC) missionaries (including priests I have talked to) we often approach the subject of authority, specifically authority of God's word and direction of His people. In fact, this is one of the biggest issues between RCs and Reformed Christians today. The RC church teaches that the ultimate authority of God's Word comes from the Magisterium, which consists of the pope and bishops.

So my questions are as follows:

1) If the pope is the only person who can interpret Scripture, then wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the pope alone has the ultimate authority over Scripture? If not one of God's children, except for the pope, has the authority to interpret Scripture nor reveal what Scripture teaches, then it seems to me that the pope alone is above Scripture.

2) If the pope truly is the only person who can interpret and reveal the truth about Scripture that all layman are unable to do themselves, then what holds the pope accountable? It can't be Scripture because he is the only one who can interpret and reveal the truth of Scripture. It can't be any other human being because only the pope can speak "ex cathedra." The way I see it, there is literally nothing that can correct the pope. If you say that the Holy Spirit guides the pope into all truth, that still doesn't answer the question of accountability since it is he who is "guided by the Spirit" that reveals what the Spirit guided him to. If that makes sense.


So there you have it, those are my two questions for now. I would love to see dialogue between both parties because I know this isn't a simple straight forward question to answer. I will be on and off CF on account of being busy, but I still wanted to ask this question. Also, if I am not correct on anything regarding the RC doctrine and dogma, I humbly apologize now and would love for you to correct me. Thank you for all responses!

In Christ

different Christian Churches (Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) interpret Matthew 16:18 differently -

Actually, I must correct myself.....the Catholic Church interprets "this rock" to mean that Jesus established Peter as the head of the Christian Church.

Eastern Orthodox Christians and Protestant Christians have the same exact interpretation of "this rock"

In Matthew 16:18, the word “rock” refers to Peter’s confession of faith, and not to Peter himself.

It is on Jesus Christ, the Rock, that the Church’s unchanging faith and confession is firmly rooted.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

woah that's scary..... I realize the power of the Pope position in the church isn't what it once was..but figured it was lesser then that.

While the the First Vatican Council defined papal infallibility in 1870, it was always true.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Can you show proof where the "clearly knew he was the pope"?

from Fr. William Saunders
St. Peter's role in the New Testament further substantiates the Catholic belief concerning the papacy and what Jesus said in Matthew 16. St. Peter held a preeminent position among the Apostles. He is always listed first (Mt. 10:14; Mk. 3:16-19; Lk. 6:14-1 5; Acts 1:13) and is sometimes the only one mentioned (Lk. 9:32). He speaks for the Apostles (Mt. 18:21; Mk. 8:28; Lk. 12:41; Jn. 6:69).

When our Lord selects a group of three for some special event, such as the Transfiguration, St. Peter is in the first position. Our Lord chose to teach from St. Peter's boat. At Pentecost St. Peter preached to the crowds and told of the mission of the Church (Acts 2;14-40). He performed the first miraculous healing (Acts 3:6-7). St. Peter also received the revelation that the Gentiles were to be baptized (Acts 10:9-48) and sided with St. Paul against the need for circumcision (Acts 15). At the end of his life, St. Peter was crucified, but in his humility asked to be crucified upside down.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

the faiths are uniting back home to rome. as are the other religions.

Francis Beckwith's decision rejoin the Roman Catholic Church will send some kind of tremors through the Evangelical Theological Society, which he served as president.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

the faiths are uniting back home to rome. as are the other religions.

Anglicans are becoming Roman Catholics

More Anglicans leave Church of England for Rome

 

[Korean-American Christian]

It came about through the politics of the time when the Church needed to reign in those emperors who wanted to make decisions and run their countries independent of the Church. The Pope of the time used his power and influence to exert his authority by threatening to excommunicate anyone who defied it.

Pope, (Latin papa, from Greek pappas, “father”), the title, since about the 9th century, of the bishop of Rome, the head of the Roman Catholic church. It was formerly given, especially from the 3rd to the 5th century, to any bishop and sometimes to simple priests as an ecclesiastical title expressing affectionate respect.

 

[Chipsj15]

Korean-American Christian, my post wasn't necessarily intended to learn about the RC church since I have studied quite a bit of it. But rather, I wanted to discuss the two questions I posted with those who stand behind an infallible office such as the pope. You don't need to continue to post these teachings unless you desire to continue - thank you for your posts though.

 

[frienden thalord]

Francis Beckwith's decision rejoin the Roman Catholic Church will send some kind of tremors through the Evangelical Theological Society, which he served as president.

Sadly most of the entire world will hold to the all inclusive mindset.
The churches are just selling out their flocks. And sadly most of the flocks love to have it so.
Even evangelicals will buy the lie. Interfaith is truly the mother of all who love falshoods
and her all inclusive message will allow many to serve darkness and yet feel saved
and love and peace , unity. I call interfaith the religion of upmost DUNG.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Korean-American Christian, my post wasn't necessarily intended to learn about the RC church since I have studied quite a bit of it. But rather, I wanted to discuss the two questions I posted with those who stand behind an infallible office such as the pope. You don't need to continue to post these teachings unless you desire to continue - thank you for your posts though.

My dear brother, my sincerest apologies

 

[Chipsj15]

My dear brother, my sincerest apologies

No problem at all! It is nice to see you are knowledgeable in the faith

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I wanted to discuss the two questions I posted with those who stand behind an infallible office such as the pope.

My dear brother, may I give you unsolicited advice?

Create some more posts within this thread so that it becomes a Featured thread.

When your thread becomes a Featured thread, it is displayed on the front page of CF.

People are more inclined to respond to a Featured thread.

In this way, you can have a lively discusion with those who stand behind an infallible office such as the pope.

Just a friendly suggestion