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Authorised King James Version

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by Thunderchild, Feb 7, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    The KJV Is Unchanged

    Every popular new version has undergone major revision. The American Standard was updated to the New American Standard. The New American Standard has now been revised again. Each time, several words were changed.

    Also, the NIV has undergone a few different revisions. Each revision has resulted in new wording.

    Purchase a copy of the NIV, NASV, LIV, or any of a number of other popular new versions and compare them to the originally published version of the same translation and you will see many words have changed. Then, buy a KJV at any bookstore and compare it to a KJV from 1611 and you will see that EVERY word is the same.

    Many have claimed that since the KJV was "revised" several times between 1611 and 1769 that is why it was again necessary to "revise" it in 1881, 1901, 1981, etc. However, in using this logic, the new version advocates misrepresent the facts.

    None of the "revisions" of the KJV between 1611 and 1769 resulted in the addition, subtraction, and or replacement of one word.

    At one point the KJV was "revised" to add marginal notes but this did not change the text at all. Another "revision" was made to reflect the addition of the letter "S" to the English alphabet. This revision resulted in the word "Psalms" being changed from "Pfalms" to "Psalms" and other similar changes. Obviously, the wording did not change. A similar revision took place when the letter "J" was added to our alphabet.

    The biggest revision took place when spelling was standardized in the English language. This resulted in over 20,000 changes. However, the examples given will illustrate that not one word was changed: "asswaged" was changed to "assuaged," "mortar" was changed to "morter," "plaister" to "plaster," "grashoppers" to "grasshoppers," "cuckow" to "cockoo," "flotes" to "floats," "soape" to "soap," etc.

    So whereas a "revision" by modern translators means that you have to change hundreds of words, the word changes in all of the new versions adds up to far more than 20,000 changes, the "revisions" in the King James Bible have not resulted in a single word change. The King James Bible in print today is the "revised" edition of 1769. Take away the marginal notes (which are not a part of the text anyway) and take into consideration the difference in spelling and you will have the King James Bible of 1611. EVERY WORD is the SAME. Had the new version translators got it right the first time, as did the KJV translators, their would not be a need for them to continously revise their work and change the wording.

    For the record, the New King James (NKJV) is not simply a 1980's revivion of the 1769 KJV. It is a complete adulteration of the text. Many words were changed and the result is that the NKJV reads more like a NASV than it does a KJV. The NKJV should not be considered to be a KJV!!
  2. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    No kidding? You might want to investigate that a little further and not rely on some web site for your information.
  3. Navigator

    Navigator Pizzagator...

    I firmly believe God is still at work in perserving his word, and didn't cease operations in 1611.

    Inerrency extends only as far as the autographs, and does not extend to coied manuscripts, or translations. There fore you would be claiming an errancy position if you allowed that God made errors in the autographs. I don't hold that.

    Faith in a specific translation of the Bible isn't the same as faith in God. (another little red herring)... (The scriptures say 'test everything, hold onto the good'... )

    The same argument can be made for the KJV-only camp... Since the evidence for a string of documents back to the originals is lost, no matter if they came form Alexandria, or Antioch.

    Are you? Why put your faith in a book, when you can put your faith in God?

    No, that sir, is your opinion. An opinion not shared by the translators of the KJV.
    I'm not quite getting what you mean by 'enforcing' faith, any clarifications?

    PS 119:89 "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."

    is this the same word that is:

    PS 119:105 "Thy word is a lampl unto my feet, and a light unto my path. "

    Or is it hidden in the psalmsters heart:

    PS 119:11 "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."

    Paul says: "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. (Col 3:16)

    So perhaps this word is God's living word and doesn't reside in print in some book, but resides in our heart, and is revealed by the Helper, the Counselor, God the Holy Spirit.

    doesn't follow... does an author write a book for himself, for a publisher, or for the public?
    The sacred writings of God.

    what is YOUR definintion of Scripture, ed?

    No one is claiming that the KJV is not a good version of the Bible, nor the word of God (as a written word, since the word (logos) is more often referred to as God the Son, or at least the Apostle John thought so)... We are only claiming that the KJV isn't the exclusive word of God. ymmv.

    So from your position, Jesus was preaching from the KJV? HE didn't even have ANY NT manuscripts to claim as scripture... so toss out everything after Malachi... another Non Sequiter...

    He is catching ON.... wow...

    None of them is the inerrant Bible... all of them are translations, that the Holy Spirit can use to reveal the living word of God, and all is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

    Aren't KJV-only adherents preaching a form of idolotry? Or since they believe God no longer works to preserve his word, and ceased operations in 1611, aren't THEY preaching Deism?

    at any rate:

  4. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    The starting point of apostasy

    The questioning of the Bible's preservation is the starting point of all
    other kinds of apostasy. Satan in Genesis 3 did not begin his attack by
    questioning whether there was a God, or whether God created, or whether
    the doctrine of the Trinity is true. Nor did it begin with the question
    of whether God's word was inspired in the originals. Apostasy began when
    Satan asked Eve, "Yea hath God said?" "Eve, are you certain that you
    presently have a full recollection of what God said?" When doubt was
    given a bridgehead at this point, the other defenses soon fell. The same
    principle applies today: Has God preserved His word and kept intact His
    original work of inspiration or has He not? It is a fact that the one
    common denominator in all the varied errors, deviations, and heresies is
    that their advocates will first criticize the standard received edition
    or translation of Scripture
  5. liafail

    liafail New Member

    can anyone tell me where I can find the verse that states, "I am the Lord thy God, I changeth not."?
  6. Wave

    Wave member

    Wolseley; thanks for your answer, I'm satrting to get the picture...

    In the Swedish-speaking parts of Europe it's the same problem. We have to "main" translations that are "fighting"...The first on is People's Bible(or Folk's Bible) taht were published 1998, it has a new translation of both O and N testament. Then we have the "church" translation; Bible 2000, that came 1999. The Lutheran church use Bible 2000, still many wont to even hold that Bible. The old church-Bible is 1917;s translation and Bible 2000 is an updated version of that one. I have Folk's Bible and I like it, I found it as the word of God, I still know that no translation is perfect. I will not start blaiming on these Bibles, I don't use Bible 2000, and I don't want my friend to read it neither. But it still can bring people to God. And that is the most important, even if there is things that aren't according to what I've got revealed in my heart that is the will of God. So I think we have the same problem as you...
  7. liafail

    liafail New Member

    Keep in mind that translations, like rumours, can change the entire meaning. Todays society is based on a "feelgood" mentality..... a "do not offend" society. Yet, it all became blurry. Now christians are considered intolerant by the liberal media, and the labeling grows. Now the media has established homosexuality as an "alternative lifestyle". Our children are being brainwashed in schools... and the latest..... a gender neutral version of the Bible. Now this version of the bible is not the cause; but the effect of liberal brainwashing.
  8. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    ed, ed, ed.... did you read ANY of Navigator's post? Be honest with me ed; speak truth to me ed. Don't hide behind another one of your SPAM jobs. Why won't you address Navigator's post directly, instead of spinning off into another article? :confused:

    I'll tell you what I think ed. I think you don't directly address posts because you lack any immediate form of defense. Ya know, I MIGHT consider some of your arguments if you had ANY sources, or if you had ANY logical, centralized, coherent themes to present, but you do not. ed, don't waste your time or the time of others by making arguments that have NO references and NO organized, thematic defense.

    Furthermore, PLEASE, for the LOVE OF ACADEMIC SANITY, do NOT use any more FARCICAL statements that make your position look like a string of deranged, unsubstantiated semantics.

    ed, understand this.... NO ONE is trying to annihilate the Word of God. If anything, the good translations out there like the NASB are trying to be MORE accurate and MORE complete than previous versions!!! What is your deal ed?! Do you not want us to know the ACCURATE MEANINGS and LITERAL WORDINGS of God's Word from the earliest available sources?! ed this is my last post to you. I PRAY that you PLEASE understand that we're not attacking God's Word, just your poor scholarship, which may or may not be intentional.
  9. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    Why Does it Bother You That I am
    King James Only?

    The words of the LORD are pure words:
    as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
    Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
    Psalm 12:6,7

    Let me ask you to answer the following questions about my position:

    1. How many people am I leading to Hell because I believe the AV1611 is infallible?

    2. How many young Christians will grow up with a stunted knowledge of the Bible, if I teach them to read it with the belief it is infallible and the very words of God?

    3. What is wrong with holding up the AV1611 and telling Bible-believing Christians, "You can trust every word"?

    4. How much of my reward will I lose for trusting God to keep his "WORDS" to every generation?

    5. If I am not allowed to believe the AV1611 is infallible, then which version should hold that distinction?

    6. If no version can hold that distinction, what do you suggest I tell my grand-children the next time they read Psalm 12:6-7?

    7. If I am forced to learn Hebrew and Greek before I can study the "words" of God, will you pay for our lessons?

    8. Please tell me why you still "preach from" the AV1611 but do not believe it is infallible?

    9. Which Bible do you use in your private studies and which one is the "best translation"?

    10. Why can't you just leave us "ignorant brethren" alone with our belief in the infallibility of the Scriptures and let us retain the title "Bible-believers", while you could use the title "Bible-correctors and interpreters"?

    I know I will continue to receive tons of comments telling me how stupid I am, and how ignorant of the truth I am, and how I am leading my friends astray holding up the "infallible" AV1611. But somehow, I cannot see the Lord condemning me for trusting Him and His promise in Psalm 12:6,7. Can anyone imagine I would make God angry because I believe He has preserved for me His inspired words, just as I believe He has promised?

    Come on..... What's wrong with believing the King James Bible Only?

    What do YOU have to offer in its place other than confusion - hundreds of different versions all saying different things - hundreds of different Greek texts all saying different things because you DO KNOW that the 'originals' are not available, right? You do know that, I hope!

    And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Luke 4:4

    What do you have to offer us regarding that EVERY word of God that we are to live by?

    Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
  10. snw7

    snw7 New Member

    ed - as for me, there will be no more answering any of your silly, contrived questions. you want to do all the asking and none of the answering. until this becomes a 2-way conversation, just post and reply to yourself if you don't mind. you're wasting valuable internet space and i'm sure valuable database storage to keep your threads alive.
  11. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    Where is "the Greek Text"

    If there is one "heresy" that really strikes an Alexandrian as "blasphemy," it is the homely and perfectly apparent truth that you can use the Authorized English Version to alter "the Greek text," often miscalled "THE ORIGINAL GREEK TEXT" by apostate Fundamentalists who worship scholarship. This confusion of terms was purposely propagated (and originated) by Christian educators for one hundred years to create the illusion that scholars have access to the ORIGINALS, while a layman does not. This Nicolaitan procedure is still carried out and going on in every classroom of every Christian college and university in America today, in 2002 and will continue to do so as years go by.

    We all know there is no such thing as "THE GREEK TEXT." There never has been. When John wrote his original "Greek text" (90 A.D.) there wasn't one Greek text on earth that contained Paul's original of 1Thessalonians or Galatians, and if there was it wasn't in any book containing "THE GREEK TEXTS" of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Peter. "THE GREEK TEXT," like Santa Claus and the Big Bad Wolf, is stuck in the chimney. There are about thirty Greek texts: Mill, Walton, Fell, Tischendorf, Griesbach, Semler, Hug, Lachmann, Nestle, Aland, Metzger, Erasmus, Colinaeus, Elzevir, Alford, Souter, Beza, etc.). But the term is a "historic position" because it suggests, without SAYING it, that the ONE ("THE") true Greek text is in the hands of a depraved Bible critic who is altering your King James Bible.
  12. Navigator

    Navigator Pizzagator...

    answering questions... becoming a hobby... :)

    Roughly the same number as I am leading to hell by advocating people read a bible they can easily understand.

    Roughly the same number of young Christians that grow up in a home where Church attendance is Christmas and Easter. Roughly the same number that will never pick up a bible because they have trouble reading at an eighth grade level, and any study of a text in an arcane language seems as folly as long as there is a PlayStation around.

    The same thing that is wrong with holding up a NIV (or insert any other translation) and saying, "You can trust every word!"?

    Roughly the same as your loss for insisting that Christians use a particular translation...

    The autographs. (or at least the Scriptures that Paul was talking to Timothy about... which didn't include any NT texts...)

    Tell them that God is still active, and God the Spirit resides in Christians to reveal the truth of Scriptures given in what ever translation they can read.

    Will you pay for my lessons in understanding arcane seventeenth century words, since you find them infalliable... Will you pay for English lessons for those who don't speak English, but instead speak swahili or some other obscure language?

    Preaching from something, doesn't require a belief in infallibility... People can preach from a Science text, and even scientists don't find them to be infallible.

    Let me list: Darby, ASV, CEV, ESV, ISV, KJV, The Message (a [sup]gasp[/sup] paraphrase), NASB (95 update), NCV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, GNB, YLT. They each have strengths and weaknesses. I switch back and forth from the NLT (with it [sup]gasp[/sup] gender neutral language) and the NASB, for word studying, I use the NASB, and KJV... you'd probably be surprised how well all of them complement each other... [sub]but then again, I doubt you've even read this far[/sub]

    One, I am a Bible-Believer.

    Two, I have no problem with you having a personal belief that the KJV is infallible.

    Three, I do have a problem when you start saying that everyone should share your belief, and then SPAM a message board with a long list of KJV ULs and propoganda.

    Four, I have never called you ignorant, and if you have felt that I have, I sincerely apologize.

    Romans 14:1-4
    I'll stand on that...

  13. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    The scriptures show true salvation!
    I Corinthians 15:3,4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    People err not knowing the scriptures!
    Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

    The scriptures must be fulfilled!
    Matthew 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

    Jesus preached the scriptures!
    Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

    Jesus is the one who gives us our understanding of the scriptures!
    Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

    Scriptures deal with our own eternal life and they testify of the real Jesus Christ!
    John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
    Acts 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

    Paul reasoned with the scriptures!
    Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

    Scriptures were searched daily!
    Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

    Scriptures give comfort and hope!
    Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

    The Scriptures prove the correct gospel!
    I Corinthians 15:3,4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    Timothy knew them as a child!
    II Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    People who mess with the scriptures, do so at their own risk!
    II Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    We are to live everyday by His words!
    Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

    We must have His words, not man's words!
    I Thessalonnians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

    God inspired His words to us with four profitable purposes in mind!
    II Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    God promised that you would have them available even today!
    Psalms 12:6,7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
  14. Navigator

    Navigator Pizzagator...

    okay ed... another question for you to ignore.

    If you equate scriptures with the KJ-translation, then how did Paul and Jesus teach from the scriptures?

    or is this just more tasty spam...

    better to give me a link to follow, and save you the time of retyping or cutting and pasting...
  15. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    It probably won't do any good. But since this my last post, I'll at least answer a few questions.

    [HINT HINT, Ed that means you should consider answering a few questions

    No one said you were - unless you say that a person cannot be saved without accepting your position on the KJV - in which case, you are proclaiming a different Gospel (Galatians 1:6-10).

    Answered that already - the autographs are inspired, infallible.

    I have never charged for teaching Greek and Hebrew in the past 20 years.

    I use the Greek New Testament (and about 15 translations)
    I use the Hebrew Old Testament and a Greek Old Testament (Septuagint) (and about 15 translations)

    Ah, but this isn't the issue. The issue is that you claim that those who use modern translations are condemning people to hell; you have been berating and name-calling anyone who uses a modern translation. And at that point you are calling into question our faith. So, who is leaving whom alone?

    Let's be clear - the issue is not whether someone considers you "stupid" for accepting and believing the promises of God. Anyone who is a Christian faces this kind of insult - but from the world. The issue is that you are not dealing with the integrity of translation, the integrity of evidence, and the integrity of God's Word - despite your frequent postings claiming otherwise. You don't evidence any respect for the translators of the KJV - it's no wonder you have no respect for any other translators.

    And pity those poor translators of the KJV who sincerely believed that their goal was to provide a translation in the language of the people at that time using the best available Greek manuscripts.
  16. edjones

    edjones Active Member

    Why all the controversy about the King James Bible? Because
    modern Christian scholarship has CHANGED the Greek Textus Receptus,
    from which the King James Bible was translated, in 6,000 PLACES!

    This is why we have so many omissions in the "modern" versions
    of the Bible. Words omitted, in brackets, parentheses, or italics,
    are counted as NOT AUTHENTIC according to BRAINWASHED modern
    scholarship, represented in part by Griesbach, Lachmann, Tischendorf,
    Tregelles, Alford, Wordworth, Westcott and Hort.

    Here's a list of JUST 200 of these changes. Why don't you go
    through this list and see how many have been changed in YOUR Bible?
    It might shock you!


    1:25--(FIRSTBORN) is out. Speaking of the Lord Jesus.
    5:44--(BLESS THEM THAT CURSE YOU) is out.
    6:13--(KINGDOM, POWER, GLORY) is out.
    6:27--(STATURE) is changed to span of life.
    6:33--(OF GOD) is out. Referring to the kingdom--
    8:29--(JESUS) is out. As Son of God.
    9:13--(TO REPENTANCE) is out. Calling sinners--
    12:35--(OF THE HEART) is out. Good treasure--
    12:47--(VERSE IS OUT) About Christ's mother.
    13:51--(JESUS SAID UNTO THEM and LORD) is out.
    16:3 --(O YE HYPOCRITES) is out.
    16:20--(JESUS) is out.
    17:21--(VERSE IS OUT). About prayer and fasting.
    18:11--(VERSE IS OUT). Tells Jesus came to save.
    19:9 --(LAST 11 WORDS ARE OUT). About adultery.
    19:17--(GOD) is out. None good but (God).
    20:7 --(WHATSOEVER IS RIGHT RECEIVE) is out.
    20:16--(MANY BE CALLED BUT FEW CHOSEN) is out.
    21:44--(VERSE IS OUT) About Christ the stone.
    23:14--(VERSE IS OUT) Woe scribes and hypocrites.
    25:13--(WHEREIN THE SON OF MAN COMETH) is out.
    27:54--(THE SON OF GOD) is A SON of God.
    28:2 --(FROM THE DOOR) is out.
    28:9 --(THEY WENT TO TELL HIS DISCIPLES) is out.


    1:1 --(SON OF GOD) is out in Williams, Godspeed, Panin, Nestle, New
    World, Westcott & Hort.
    1:14--(OF THE KINGDOM) is out. Jesus gospel--
    1:31--(IMMEDIATELY) is out. The fever left--
    2:17--(TO REPENTANCE) is out. Call sinners--
    6:16--(FROM THE DEAD) is out. John is risen--
    6:33--(HIM) is changed to them.
    7:8 --(WASHING OF POTS AND CUPS) is out.
    7:16--(VERSE IS OUT) About having an ear to hear.
    9:24--(LORD) is out. A believer called Him Lord.
    9:42--(IN ME) is out. Little ones that believe--
    9:44--(VERSE IS OUT) About fire not quenched.
    9:46--(VERSE IS OUT) Where worm dieth not.
    10:21--(TAKE UP THE CROSS) is out. Jesus said--
    10:24--(FOR THEM THAT TRUST IN RICHES) is out.
    11:10--(IN THE NAME OF THE LORD) is out.
    11:26--(VERSE IS OUT) If ye do not forgive, etc.
    13:14--(SPOKEN BY DANIEL THE PROPHET) is out.
    13:33--(AND PRAY) is out, or in italics.
    14:68--(AND THE COCK CREW) is out.
    15:28--(VERSE IS OUT) Scripture was fulfilled, etc.
    15:39--(THE SON OF GOD) is A SON of God.
    16:9-20--(12 VERSES ARE OUT) in some Bibles.


    1:28--(BLESSED ART THOU AMONG WOMEN) is out.
    2:33--(JOSEPH) is changed to father.
    2:43--(JOSEPH AND HIS MOTHER) is changed to parents.
    4:4 --(BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD) is out.
    4:8 --(GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN) is out.
    4:41--(THE CHRIST) is out. The Son of God.
    6:48--(FOUNDED UPON A ROCK) is well built.
    7:31--(AND THE LORD SAID) is out.
    9:54--(EVEN AS ELIJAH DID) is out.
    9:56--(SON OF MAN IS COME TO SAVE LIVES) is out.
    11:29--(THE PROPHET) is out. About Jonah.
    17:36--(VERSE IS OUT) One taken, another left.
    21:4 --(CAST IN UNTO THE OFFERINGS OF GOD) is out.
    22:20--(VERSE IS OUT) Out in NEB, and RSV.
    22:31--(AND THE LORD SAID) is out.
    22:64--(THEY STRUCK HIM ON THE FACE) is out.
    23:17--(WHOLE VERSE IS OUT) in many Bibles.
    23:38--(LETTERS OF GREEK, LATIN, HEBREW) is out.
    23:42--(LORD) is out. Remember me, etc.
    23:45--(SUN WAS ECLIPSED) in Moffatt and NEB.
    24:3 --(OF THE LORD JESUS) is out.
    24:6 --(HE IS NOT HERE, BUT IS RISEN) is out.
    24:12--(VERSE IS OUT) Peter's testimony.
    24:40--(VERSE IS OUT) Christ showed them hands, feet.
    24:49--(OF JERUSALEM) is out.
    24:51)CARRIED UP INTO HEAVEN) is out.


    1:14--(BEGOTTEN) is out in 1:18, 3:16, 3:18.
    1:27--(PREFERRED BEFORE ME) is out. Jesus is)
    3:13--(WHICH IS IN HEAVEN) is out.
    3:15--(SHOULD NOT PERISH) is out.
    4:42--(THE CHRIST) is out.
    5:4 --(VERSE IS OUT) Pool of Bethesda.
    6:47--(ON ME) is out. He that believes--
    6:69--(THAT CHRIST THE SON) is out.
    7:53--(TO 8:11) is out, in brackets or italics.
    8:36--(FATHER) is out. Changed to He.
    9:35--(SON OF GOD) is out. Is Son of Man.
    11:41--(WHERE THE DEAD WAS LAID) is out.
    16:16--(BECAUSE I GO TO THE FATHER) is out.
    17:12--(IN THE WORLD) is out.
    20:29--(THOMAS) is out.


    7:30--(OF THE LORD) is out. Angel--
    7:37--(HIM SHALL YE HEAR) is out. Christ--
    8:37--(VERSE IS OUT) or in brackets, or italics.
    9:5-6--(MUCH IS OMITTED) Concerning God's call.
    10:6 --(WHAT THOU OUGHTEST TO DO) More is out.
    15:18--(KNOWN UNTO GOD HIS WORKS) More is out.
    16:31--(CHRIST) is out.
    17:26--(BLOOD) is out.
    20:25--(OF GOD) is out. The kingdom--
    20:32--(BRETHREN) is out.
    23:9 --(LET US NOT FIGHT AGAINST GOD) is out.
    24:6-8--(MUCH IS OMITTED) or in brackets or italics.
    24:15--(OF THE DEAD) is out. Resurrection--
    28:16--(HALF OF VERSE IS OUT) in italics or brackets.
    28:29--(VERSE IS OUT) in italics or brackets.


    1:16--(OF CHRIST) is out or in italics, brackets.
    1:29--(FORNICATION) is out.
    5:2 --(BY FAITH) out in Moffatt, RSV, and NEB.
    8:1 --(LAST 10 WORDS ARE OUT) or in italics.
    9:28--(IN RIGHTEOUSNESS) is out.
    10:15--(OF PEACE) is out. Gospel--
    10:17--(OF GOD) is out. Christ is substituted.
    11:6 --(LAST 18 WORDS ARE OMITTED)
    13:9 --(SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS) is out.
    14:6 --(15 WORDS ARE OUT) Regarding the day.
    14:21--(OFFENDED, MADE WEAK) is out.
    15:29--(OF THE GOSPEL) is out.
    16:24--(WHOLE VERSE IS OUT) in italics or brackets.


    1:14--(I THANK GOD) is out in many Bibles.
    5:7 --(FOR US) is out. Christ sacrificed--
    6:20--(LAST 7 WORDS ARE OUT) Your spirit, etc.
    7:5 --(FASTING) is out. Joined with prayer.
    7:39--(BY THE LAW) is out. The wife is bound--
    10:28--(THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S) is out, and more.
    11:24--(TAKE EAT) is out. This is my body--
    11:29--(LORD'S) is out, referring to the body.
    15:47--(THE LORD) is out. Lord from heaven.
    16:22--(JESUS CHRIST) is out.
    16:23--(CHRIST) is out.


    4:6 --(JESUS) is out.
    5:10--(THE LORD) is out.
    5:18--(JESUS) is out, or in italics.
    11:31--(CHRIST) is out, or in italics.


    1:15--(GOD) is out.
    3:1 --(THAT YE SHOULD NOT OBEY TRUTH) is out.
    3:17--(IN CHRIST) is out.
    4:7 --(THROUGH CHRIST) is out.
    6:15--(IN CHRIST JESUS) is out.
    6:17--(LORD) is out.


    3:9 --(BY JESUS CHRIST) is out. God created--
    3:14--(OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST) is out.
    5:30--(OF HIS FLESH AND OF HIS BONES) is out.
    6:1 --(IN THE LORD) is out. Obey parents--
    6:10--(MY BRETHREN) is out.


    3:16--(LET US MIND THE SAME THING) is out.


    1:2 --(THE LORD JESUS CHRIST) is out.
    1:14--(THROUGH HIS BLOOD) is out, or in italics.
    1:28--(JESUS) is out.
    2:11--(OF THE SINS OF) is out.
    3:6 --(SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE) is out.


    2:19--(CHRIST) is out.
    3:11--(CHRIST) is out, or in italics.
    3:13--(CHRIST) is out, or in italics.


    1:8 --(CHRIST) is out, or in italics.


    1:17--(WISE) is out. The only wise God.
    2:7 --(IN CHRIST) is out, or in italics.
    3:16--(GOD) is out. Manifest in the flesh.
    4:12--(IN SPIRIT) is out.
    6:5 --(FROM SUCH WITHDRAW THYSELF) is out.


    1:11--(OF THE GENTILES) is out.
    4:1 --(LORD) is out.
    4:22--(JESUS CHRIST) is out, or in italics.


    1:4 --(THE LORD) is out, or in italics.


    1:6 --(JESUS) is out.
    1:12--(RECEIVE HIM) is out.


    1:3 --(BY HIMSELF) is out. Purged our sins--
    3:1 --(CHRIST) is out.
    7:21--(AFTER ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK) is out.
    10:30--(SAITH THE LORD) is out.
    10:34--(IN HEAVEN) is out.
    11:11--(WAS DELIVERED OF A CHILD) is out. Sarah--


    5:16--(FAULTS) is changed to SINS. (Wrong Greek text.)


    1:22--(THROUGH THE SPIRIT) is out.
    4:1 --(FOR US) is out. Christ suffered--
    4:14--(LAST 15 WORDS ARE OUT) or in italics.
    5:10--(JESUS) is out, or in italics.
    5:11--(GLORY AND DOMINION) is out of some Bibles.


    2:17--(FOREVER) is out, or in italics.
    3:9 --(US IS CHANGED TO YOU) Destroys meaning.

    I JOHN
    1:7 --(CHRIST) is out.
    2:7 --(FROM THE BEGINNING) is out.
    4:3 --(CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH) is out.
    4:9 --(BEGOTTEN) is out in some versions.
    4:19--(HIM) is out, or in italics. We love--
    5:13--(LAST 13 WORDS ARE OUT)


    1:25--(WISE) is out. Referring to God.
  17. edjones

    edjones Active Member


    It is correct to call a translation of the Bible "the inspired
    Word of God," if it is a correct translation from uncorrupted manuscripts.

    1. In 2 Timothy 3:15-17, Paul refers to the Scriptures that Timothy had and
    calls them inspired.

    2. Timothy did not have the originals; he had only a copy. It is possible
    that he had the Old Testament in Hebrew, but more likely that he had the
    Greek translation of the Old Testament, since his father was a Greek and he
    lived in Derbe and/or Lystra, which were definitely Greek-speaking. Every
    reference in the New Testament to the scripture refers to copies of the
    autographs (original manuscripts) in Hebrew or to translations in Greek. No
    one had the autographs at that time.

    3. The scriptures which Timothy had were called "holy," that is
    different; set apart. They were "set apart" in the sense that they
    were inspired and preserved, as God had promised in Psalm 12:6-7; Psalm
    100:5 and other places. No other ancient writings could make such a claim;
    hence, no other writings could be called "holy."

    4. Hebrew 1:8 and 10:5 quote from the Greek translation of the Old
    Testament scriptures authoritatively.

    5. Hebrews 3:7 states, "the Holy Ghost said ..." and it was in
    Greek, not in Hebrew. It does not matter whether one believes that the
    author of Hebrews was quoting from the Septuagint or making his own
    translation; the fact is that he was writing in Greek and boldly asserted,
    "the Holy Ghost said." Why did he not insert Hebrew words at
    that point? Obviously, because a translation may be correctly called what
    the Holy Ghost said! The same is true of Hebrews 9:8 and 10:15.

    6. If only the autographs are inspired, no one has the inspired scripture.
    Thus, no one could obey Matthew 4:4, "Man shall not live by bread alone,
    but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Did God intend
    for only those who had the autographs to obey this? Or did He intend for
    only those who could read Hebrew and Greek to obey this? The answer must be
    obvious to any thinking Christian. When God made this statement, and when
    Christ repeated it, did He not know that the scripture would be copied and
    translated many times? Again, if only the autographs are inspired, we
    cannot obey 2 Timothy 4:2 ("Preach the word"); nor can we obey Revelation
    22:18-19 (warnings about adding to and taking away from Scripture). Neither
    could we have the benefit of 2 Timothy 3:16-17, being instructed and
    "throughly furnished unto all good works."

    7. Without the uncorrupted Word of God, we have no salvation. 1 Peter 1:23-
    25 teaches that we are born again, of the incorruptible word of God, which
    liveth and abideth forever, and states that "this is the word which by the
    gospel if preached unto you." Note: THIS IS THE WORD ... that which they
    had heard. They had not heard the autographs, but, perhaps copies, and more
    likely, translations. Yet he stated that they were born again by the
    incorruptible word of God.
  18. Navigator

    Navigator Pizzagator...


    I'd say without the resurrection of Christ we'd have no salvation...

    You can put your faith in a book, I'll put mine in Christ...
  19. Navigator

    Navigator Pizzagator...

    Note there is a difference between inspired and infallible. I have no problem calling a translation inspired, because God's spirit will speak the truth even from cracked pots such as us. :)

    I agree with both of those statements, and want to add a bit. The texts we refer to as the NT were written in Koine Greek, or 'common greek', not the formal greek, but a language that the common people could understand, even if they weren't schooled in higher learnings.

    I certainly agree that they didn't have autographs at that time, and they didn't have autographs in 1611, and we don't have autographs in 2002, and we probably won't have autographs in 2091.

    Yes, the scriptures Paul was talking to Timothy about are holy and sacred. They were also copies, manuscripts, and not autographs. What is the thread, that God preserves his word, and he will continue to preserve his sacred word. On the binding of the Bibles I use, they all say 'Holy Bible', although they are of several different translations. They all point to the thread of manuscripts that God has used to tell the world about the redemption he has provided through the sacrifice of his Son.
    Outstanding... a translation can be used... That is exactly the point we've been trying to make. Newer translations are just as reliable and trustworthy as later translations.

    Again, there is a difference between inspired and inerrant. God's word in Scripture is inspired, in that it is 'God breathed', and I fully believe that God breathes life into many translations as he seeks to save those who are lost.

    The incorruptible word of God here is logos, or Jesus. Jesus whose spirit indwells the believer, that breathes life into dead flesh, that springs forth water that when drank will never need to be thirsty again. The incorruptible word is the second person of the Trinity, the author and perfector of our faith, the lamb of God, the good shepherd, the wonderful counselor, mighty God.

    This logos is the word rhema, or saying or statement or event that the gospel is preached.

    Jesus is the word, the logos. Not the scriptures, not the autographs, not the TR, or the Alexandrian texts...


    He is what redeems us, He is what calls us, He is what saves us, He will perfect us, He will sanctify us, He will inspire us. He is infallible, and inerrant...


  20. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    Liafail> The verse is Malachi 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
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