He can't be a good moral teacher and claim to be God, unless He is God!

refering to jesus




Perhaps he was psychologically disturbed. After all you hear of psychotic people all the time thinking that they are chosen ones, or Divine beings. Have you not ever encountered the psychiatrically disturbed?
 
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Originally posted by lared
Muslimah,
Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses don't care to waste your time or their time. They are looking for those that care to live in God's new world where true peace will prevail.
Thank-you for the hospitality though.

LOL

It took them long enough to get the point that their time & my time was being wasted :p
 
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bouncer

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Originally posted by Zico

We have to be clear about one matter here, Muslims do not claim that Jesus' true disciples tampered with the Bible, but that others claiming to act in their names did so later on. This has to be said.

But I just posted an article (for the second time) explaining why you are mistaken , and the extent to which scholars have gone to determine how authentic the Gospel is.....why is it that you are continuing to ignore this ? You seem to read only what you want to read, and believe only what you want to believe.....

1. There is a difference between a translation and a VERSION!!.

What then, is the difference between Marmaduke Mohamed Pickethall's translation of the Quran and Yusuf Ali's translation? Both are, I gather, translations of the Quran into english. Why two, when only one will suffice? And im sure these are not the only 'versions' around....

 All the 'versions' of the Bible ARE translations. The reason being, that scholars disagree on how certain verses should be translated from the original language into english.  There is NO hidden agenda by Christians, to 'twist' or 'manipulate' Gods word.  I know people who learn hebrew or greek or latin, so that they may understand the true meaning of certain verses if they are not satisfied with just the english one.  There are also people who have a copy of every major version, so that they know the different ways in which a certain verse has been interpreted......

in any case, all these versions have no doctrinal differences and the message as always remains the same....


2. When any muslim prays, he has to recite Qur'an in arabic.

How about a muslim who does not understand arabic ? wouldn't he be just parroting verses without knowing what hes saying? Why wouldnt God, who transcends all boundaries of language, race, etc. accept prayers in a language other than arabic ?


3. You can't translate the word of God. The english translations of the Qur'an are only ( the translation of the meanings of ) nothing more, nothing less.

This one doesnt make sense at all....so you mean God's language is arabic ? Why shouldnt a (translation of the meaning of) the Quran be as good as the Quran itself ? Does God reserve a special place for people who speak or read the Quran in arabic ?

What do you think our translations of the Bible are ? What is 'more' or 'less' in it ?


4. There is nothing confusing about Uthman collecting the other writings and comparing them to the version with the wife of Muhammad*pbuh*, After all,, she was his wife and Uthman was Caliphet ( successor ) to the messenger of Allah*pbuh*.

Well there isn't anything confusing about it......for one, Muslimah please note this, you were WRONG about there not being ANY conflicting versions of the Quran.  Uthman, DID order all versions of the Quran collected, and compared with the one in Hafsa's possession and had everything conflicting with that version destroyed.

The point only is, the prophet is no longer alive, there are innumerable versions, and Uthman (NOT Muhammed ) makes the decision that the ONE version in possession with Hafsa is the right one...... 


5. Not a single verse or chapter in the Qur'an mentions Uthman or Hafsa, surely if they did want to have a piece of the cake, they would have done something <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border=0> ,, don't you agree ??

Following this logic, im wondering, which of the 'others' who corrupted the Bible and claiming to act in the disciples name, got&nbsp;ANY cake? :rolleyes:


6. Where are the original writings that date to the time of Christ*pbuh* IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE ??

I dont know this one......i'll get back to you on this. Unless, someone else here can help me out on this..... :)


7. You have a book which is a testimony of many men.

Yes.....you have a book which is the testimony of only ONE man, Muhammed. No one else knows for sure whether the angel Gabriel ever visited him, and no one else has ever observed him receive a revelation.... and this ONE man claims he is a propet.


8. You have a book which was changed many times and no one denies that.

Every Christian will disagree with that statement.....we DO however, have the Book, which has been the most widely circulated, the most widely read, and the most revered....


9. You have a book with serios contradictions and errors.

If you think so.....then so do you......have a look here......

CONTRADICTIONS IN THE QURAN


&nbsp;
 
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Originally posted by bouncer



If you think so.....then so do you......have a look here......

CONTRADICTIONS IN THE QURAN



That is the stupidest site..
Would you like me to explain each so called contradiction to you?
If any of you read that site & actually thought those were valid contradictions... :( then I do feel so very sorry for you...
 
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Zico

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Kaysahi bouncer bai,,

I'm sorry to say that we can't agree, i give you contradictions and you give me misquotations and things that can't be possibly translated in english or any other language, this is why you have to recite in arabic ;) , again you can find the responses in detail to your claims here :

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/quranerr.htm

and some here:

http://www.beconvinced.com/RELIGION/CONTRADICTIONS.htm




Wa qul: "ja'a lhaqu wa zahuqal batil, innal batila kana zahooqa."


And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."


The Majestic Qur'an 17:81
 
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bouncer

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Originally posted by Muslimah

That is the stupidest site..
Would you like me to explain each so called contradiction to you?
If any of you read that site &amp; actually thought those were valid contradictions... <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/frown.gif" border=0> then I do feel so very sorry for you...

Originally posted by Zico

I'm sorry to say that we can't agree, i give you contradictions and you give me misquotations and things that can't be possibly translated in english or any other language, this is why you have to recite in arabic <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border=0> , again you can find the responses in detail to your claims here :

Hi guys,

I know very well that you can answer each of those contradictions to your own satisfaction.....but can't you see the point ??

What makes you think WE cannot answer any of the contradictions you put up about the Bible?&nbsp; They look equally silly to us.....please open up your minds....

&nbsp;
 
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So get ur bible contradiction site
& show us & answer each contradiction & if its genuinly a silly contradiction , we'll see that :p

That Quran Contradiction site was really REALLY stupid..
It was like little sentences from different verses & then this big story about how its wrong , & Allah can't count , When in acutal fact if you read the whole verse , you'll see what its talking about & how the site is just stupid , inventing contradictions that arent real :rolleyes:
 
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lared

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Muslimah,
Well, they wanted to make sure. They cared enough about you to spend that time. And before Armageddon, no doubt, you will be visited again. Notice a Bible prophecy undergoing fulfillment:

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Last year, well over one billion hours was spent by Jehovah's Witnesses in declaring the good news of God's kingdom (government) in 235 lands.

Jehovah cares for you and would like you to gain everlasting life. Notice this verse.

(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.

That is why His Witnesses spent so much time with you.
 
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bouncer

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&nbsp; Answer to contradictions :

1)

I did some reading, and it does appear that these verses have puzzled scholars for a while. However, it is hardly earth-shattering, or 'scary' as you put it.&nbsp; There have been explanations, such as the&nbsp;census actually being made before instead of during, the time of Cyrenius, or that the census was conducted in two-parts, in which case these verses could fit together, but none of them are conclusive.&nbsp; So, this can simply be put down to scribal error, a case of different accounts by different authors. It changes nothing, except perhaps the day we celebrate Christmas, which was never determined accurately anyway..... :rolleyes:

In any case, it just proves that there was no 'twisting' or 'manipulating', else these verses would have been manipulated to match each other long ago.

2)&nbsp;


&nbsp;Acts 9 : 26-29&nbsp;

&nbsp;When he came to Jerusalem, he was trying to associate with the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he was a disciple.&nbsp;
&nbsp;But Barnabas took hold of him and brought him to the apostles and described to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had talked to him, and how at Damascus he had spoken out boldly in the name of Jesus.
And he was with them, moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking out boldly in the name of the Lord.
And he was talking and arguing with the Hellenistic Jews; but they were attempting to put him to death.

Acts 26 : 19 - 21

"So, King Agrippa, I did not prove disobedient to the heavenly vision,
but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.
"For this reason some Jews seized me in the temple and tried to put me to death.

Galatians 1:15-22

But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased&nbsp;
&nbsp;to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles,&nbsp; I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus.
Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days.&nbsp;
&nbsp;But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother. (Now in what I am writing to you, I assure you before God that I am not lying.)
Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia.
I was still unknown by sight to the churches of Judea which were in Christ;

---------------------------------------------------------------

I am still trying to find the contradiction in these verses.&nbsp; Read it for yourself and show me where there is a contradiction......there is none!&nbsp;As far as I can see, there is no implication that Paul wasn't saved in that account in&nbsp;Galatians.&nbsp; If im missing something there, let me know :)
&nbsp;

3)
-----------------------------------------------------------

Acts 9 : 7

The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

Acts 22 : 9&nbsp;

&nbsp;"And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Again no contradiction, just another misrepresentation of the actual verses in the Bible.&nbsp;Acts 9 :&nbsp;7, says they heard a voice and Acts 22 :9 says they could not understand the voice, NOT that they did not hear any voice.....
 
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bouncer

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I have just answered three of the contradicitons you put up....how about either you or Muslimah, answer for me, these three contradictions form the Quran....I will continue with your list after your reply....

1) How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the announciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about (several) angels while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21.


2)Quick or Slow Creation? Allah creates the heavens and the earth in six days [7:54] and many Muslims want to be modern and scientific, and make that six eons, but then again, He creates instantaneously [2:117], "Be! And it is".

3)Heavens or Earth? Which was created first? First earth and then heaven [2:29], heaven and after that earth [79:27-30].
 
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Brian45

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Originally posted by s0uljah
There are no contradictions Zico.&nbsp; But on the other hand, here is a secret for you, I don't think the Bible is the innerant Word of God, as some fundamentalists love to say.

I put God above any book brother.

&nbsp;

Now there's your problem souljah .&nbsp;&nbsp; you put God above any book including the christian bible , so now you must ask yourself , who is God ?&nbsp; and which God do I believe in&nbsp; .&nbsp;
 
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Originally posted by Brian45


&nbsp;

Now there's your problem souljah .&nbsp;&nbsp; you put God above any book including the christian bible , so now you must ask yourself , who is God ?&nbsp; and which God do I believe in&nbsp; .&nbsp;

I believe in Christ.&nbsp; But not everything that Christ said is in the Bible, as even the Bible explains.
 
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Zico

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Hey souljah,

you can't believe in one thing and not the other, if you believe in God, then you have to believe in the written law he promissed, and since the book you have testifies against it self, and since God does not lie nor contradict him self, then surely there is in existence such a book.

but where is it? :rolleyes:


no... what was i thinking!!, Qur'an ???? it was a book written by a man who hated Christ and wanted soo much to be somebody like him.

souljah,, when a doctor needs to examin a patient the first thing he asks for is his file or his history, why don't you try for once to see what keeps me coming ??? go to your local bookstore, grab a translation of my holy book, consider it as a novel or whatever, just read it cover to cover and maybe you'll learn something new. you can get it for about 10$ , or better yet,,, you can get it for free from a muslim bookstore.

i hope you think about it bro. :wave:
 
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lared

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I could not even consider the Qur'an for the same reason I would not consider the Book of Mormon. The religions that claim that lay claim to those respective books are part and parcel of this world. They involve themselves with the politics, nationalism, and militarism of this world.

True, the overwhelming majority, of those that lay claim to the Bible do the same.

Yet, there is one body of people that are not part of this world. They do not kill when ordered or whipped up into a frenzy by a religious zealot or flag waving politician. They would rather go to jail or face execution then to hurt, wound, or kill their brother, or anyone else.

I am most interested in their message and way of life as the majority of religious people today are involved in disgusting practices and attitudes.

Jehovah's Witnesses are those people whose religion I respect. Yes, they are imperfect and make mistakes. But at least it is not with capitalist greed or bombs strapped to their torso.

And as time goes on, reasonable, thinking people are also turning to disgust in their viewpoint of this world's religions. It is already a grass roots movement in all nations.
 
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