Atheists go to hell even if they are good!?

The Beautiful Heresy said:

Looks like free-will is not that great after all, only if you use it wisely. So again, looks like God is really a nut with giving us free-will only to choose an outcome of eternal torment for us after he gave us 'choice'.

So much for free-will, I'd rather not have free-will then, I prefer to be a robot actually.

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It sure seems that way. "Love Me or Else!" Sounds more like a hostage situation than the Bride-Groom relationship found in scripture.

Hespera said:

i dont see the difference. Im told there is supposed to be payment.

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There was a payment. It was the life of Jesus Christ given on this earth as a man. It took God HIMSELF to come to Earth and live as we live and experience what we experience. God had to do what no man or animal sacrifice could.

He paid the price. Yet some still don't want Him as God after He gave His life so that they could be saved.

He hasnt done a thing for me or anyone in 2000 years. if he came to serve why isnt he doing anything?

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His saving work was FINISHED at the Cross. There is nothing else left for Him to do as far as you having the chance to be redeemed from your sin.

For the last 2000 yers, His forbearance has held out and is stil allowing people the chance to accept what He did on the Cross and not have to spend an eternity in the lake of fire.

He's preparing a place for us right now. There's a list of things that He has done for you that would stretch around the earth several times. People just don't tend to acknowledge that it's Him doing it.

You didn't wake up alive and on this earth as opposed to in eternity this morning because you chose to. HE woke you up.

You're not clothed in your right mind because you choose to be, but because HE allows you to be.

You're able to see because HE allows you to see.
You're able to travel from place to place without getting hurt because HE allows you too.
You have a roof over your head because HE allows you to maintain it.

You would have thought that God has already done enough for us, when He took our place at Calvary. But HE continues to do more and more and more everyday.

i have heard it said that way but id be fine if this "god' just leaves me alone.
Its not MY "lake of fire" and not MY "hand' that would toss me in there.

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But you don't get to decide what God does. He has deemed that things are a certain way and they are that way. Out of love, he wants us to CHOOSE to love Him. But if we choose to not love Him, then we must be separated from Him.

Eternal separation from the One Who is the LIGHT, will be an awful thing beyond people's greatest fears.

All sorts of stuff going on in the dark because the LIGHT is not there.

Yet if you are alive right now, He is still giving you time to chose Him.

if that is the same "true word" that gave us the noahs ark story, Im just not buying it at all. That story is not true.

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You don't have to buy it. Again, God is God ALONE. It is by faith that you come to trust in Him and believe everything that He has said.

I didnt feel insulted, I'd jsut like you to understand that you are wrong about 'being my own god'. A few psychos may think that. it is not characteristic of atheists. Do you understand that? Learning goes two ways.

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I understand that if Jesus Christ is not your GOD, then something or someone else is.

Freodin said:

But you asked for a honest answer, even if the question relates to my motivation for saving you.

So my desire is to live with you in your house. You reject me. I still have that desire. I love you. I don't want to see you harmed. I want to see you happy.
So there is absolutly no reason for me not to destroy the meteor again. You and your house are saved.

Honest? Do you expect me to throw a hissy fit and cry "If I cannot have you, no one will!"?

I wonder what kind of relationships you had... and expect to have.

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Well I certainly didn't see that coming.


In any case, the point being:

We were created by God for God's purpose, and after we went astray (sinned) on the road to death and hell we were then redeemed (forgiven) from that death and hell for the same purpose we were created.

If we, then, continue to reject God's purpose for our lives after having been redeemed for it then that redemption becomes null and void in our lives since we are rejecting the very purpose for the redemption.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift...if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to public disgrace." - Heb 6:4-6.

The same is true of redemption: If we have been redeemed (forgiven) for a purpose and we ignore or reject the purpose for which we were redeemed then Christ' redemption becomes pointless as far as we are concern and we are essentially "crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to public disgrace" by our public rejection of the purpose for His redemption.

And God will hold us accountable for rejecting what He paid such a high price for.

Doveaman said:

Well I certainly didn't see that coming.


In any case, the point being:

We were created by God for God's purpose, and after we went astray (sinned) on the road to death and hell we were then redeemed (forgiven) from that death and hell for the same purpose we were created.

If we, then, continue to reject God's purpose for our lives after having been redeemed for it then that redemption becomes null and void in our lives since we are rejecting the very purpose for the redemption.

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift...if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to public disgrace." - Heb 6:4-6.

The same is true of redemption: If we have been redeemed (forgiven) for a purpose and we ignore or reject the purpose for which we were redeemed then Christ redemption becomes pointless as far as we are concern and we are essentially "crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to public disgrace" by our public rejection of the purpose for His redemption.

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An interesting point, that I already had in mind in my last response to raze. Perhaps before I comment on it you in his stead can answer me this question: can there be reconcilation (the "purpose of redemption" you mentioned) in Hell?

chaela said:

This is why I think that if our salvation were to hinge upon Correct Belief (which I don't believe it does), we'd all be doomed.

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It hinges upon "who" we believe/trust. If we believe the wrong god we are surely doomed.

b&wpac7 said:

Except, of course, those like me that would continue to save the house. I see no benefit to allowing it to be destroyed, especially if I really want to live there.

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If you were God you would. Fortunately, for mankind's sake you are not God.

Doveaman said:

If you were God you would. Fortunately, for mankind's sake you are not God.

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I'm not sure what you are saying here.

razeontherock said:

So you're saved whether you like it or not? G-d drags you kicking and screaming into His Presence? Please illustrate how this is loving in any sense of the word.

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For some reason she's assuming everyone will want to be saved. I don't know where she got that idea. It's certainly not in the Bible:

"Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done." - Rev 16:10-11.

Maybe the pain and sores described here is the result of God dragging them into His Presence to save them despite their kicking and screaming and refusal to repent.

Maybe Universalism is a religion about God's love being imposed upon mankind despite their refusal of it.

Doveaman said:

For some reason she's assuming everyone will want to be saved. I don't know where she got that idea. It's certainly not in the Bible:

"Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done." - Rev 16:10-11.

Maybe the pain and sores described here is the result of God dragging them into His Presence to save them despite their kicking and screaming and refusal to repent.

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I couldn't imagine not wanting to be saved from eternal torture, if I believed that hell actually existed. Who would want eternal torture? Why wouldn't everyone want to be saved? That's just foolish.

selfinflikted said:

I couldn't imagine not wanting to be saved from eternal torture, if I believed that hell actually existed. Who would want eternal torture? Why wouldn't everyone want to be saved? That's just foolish.

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You didn't hear me say anything about "torture", did you?

There are some people who would rather die than to be with God. That's a fact.

selfinflikted said:

I couldn't imagine not wanting to be saved from eternal torture, if I believed that hell actually existed. Who would want eternal torture? Why wouldn't everyone want to be saved? That's just foolish.

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If I were God and someone desired to go to a place of eternal torture, I'd have to look within them to see what was causing that. And then I'd fix it...

b&wpac7 said:

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

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If you were God you would not have saved the house because you would have known better. But if God was you he probably would save the house, since he would be relying on your finite human brain.

Doveaman said:

You didn't hear me say anything about "torture", did you?

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Nope. But the general concensus among Christians is that hell is eternal torture.

Doveaman said:

If you were God you would not have saved the house because you know better. But if God was you he probably would save the house, since he is relying on a finite human brain.

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Eh? So, if he were god, his "all-knowingness" would somehow supercede his want to save the house?

Doveaman said:

If you were God you would not have saved the house because you have known better. But if God was you he probably would saved the house, since he would be relying on your finite human brain.

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How do you know what is better then with your finite human brain?

Freodin said:

An interesting point, that I already had in mind in my last response to raze. Perhaps before I comment on it you in his stead can answer me this question: can there be reconcilation (the "purpose of redemption" you mentioned) in Hell?

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To my knowledge I would have to say no.

Doveaman said:

To my knowledge I would have to say no.

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So there is no way for God to achive his goal once I am in Hell.

But there is still a way for God to achive his goal if I am not in Hell.

Should be a no-brainer then, whether it is better to keep people around or let them go to eternal damnation.


In case of our meteor: while you and your house are still around, I can work on you to accept me. If it all went boom... well, game over.

b&wpac7 said:

How do you know what is better then with your finite human brain?

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You are assuming I am relying on my finite human brain. I'm not.

Doveaman said:

You are assuming I am relying on my finite human brain. I'm not.

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Oh, I love it when people claim to be prophets.

Freodin said:

So there is no way for God to achive his goal once I am in Hell.

But there is still a way for God to achive his goal if I am not in Hell.

Should be a no-brainer then, whether it is better to keep people around or let them go to eternal damnation.

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See above.