Atheists are Dangerous!

[Rubiks]

So fundamentalist atheism is a phenomenon limited to the English-speaking world?

No, fundamentalist atheism can exist anywhere. Ultra-conservative Muslim countries surely have atheist fundamentalists, but those countries don't allow criticism of Islam and not everyone can read Arabic.

 

[stevil]

Actually fundamentalism is a little bit more than simply a strict literalist interpretation. That little bit more has to do with an attitude of superiority coupled with a contempt not just of other points of view but of the people holding them. Viewed in this way almost anyone can be fundamentalist in some way.

Arrogant ARROGANT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
"unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people"

So you could use the term "arrogant atheists". I'm sure there are many arrogant atheists, just as there are many arrogant people.

 

[JackRT]

Arrogant ARROGANT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
"unpleasantly proud and behaving as if you are more important than, or know more than, other people"

So you could use the term "arrogant atheists". I'm sure there are many arrogant atheists, just as there are many arrogant people.

So, you agree with me. Thanks.

 

[Rajni]

This sort of thing seems to happen often so I have decided to start dragging some of these into areas where those accused can answer. Forcing them into the sunlight so to speak.

So this is a chance for atheists to disagree and a chance for a more balanced representation of Christianity to show us where you stand.

Thank you for doing that.

It's so annoying when threads are started about certain
groups of people in areas where the very groups of people
being discussed cannot respond. It's cowardly, imo.

I noticed that the original thread no longer exists.

 

[Sketcher]

I missed the thread.

I certainly know the type of atheist the author of the column is talking about, but I also know that not all atheists are that way. It would be un-Christian of me to treat all atheists as if they were that way.

Funny thing is, that kind of atheist is really a parody of the kind of Christians that most people don't like. Didn't they want to get away from that?

 

[stevil]

It means an atheist who behaves like a fundamentalist.

A fundamentalist is
"a person who believes in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture in a religion"
How does an atheist behave like that?

Most of them are edgy teenagers and love to quote Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Richard Carrier, etc. as go-to authorities on religious matters.

Well of course Richard Dawkins and Sam aren't religious scholars or authorities in that field.
It doesn't make much sense to bring them up in a discussion about the bible or theology.

Richard Carrier however does have qualifications on the historical Jesus topic.

But people who participate in forums or debates on topics aren't necessarily "fundamentalists", they are merely people who are interested in discussing or debating topics. Some of them are trolls.

Symptoms of fundamentalist atheism include:

• Believes Jesus didn't exist
• Thinks scientism is a reasonable philosophy
• Thinks religion is the cause of almost all suffering in the world

A person that believes that Jesus didn't exist, is mere that, a person that believes Jesus didn't exist.
This does not make them a fundamentalist atheist. There is no atheist scripture that says a historical Jesus didn't exist.

I would consider a person that thinks religion is the cause of almost all suffering to be an anti-theist rather than a fundamentalist.

The word fundamentalist just doesn't apply to atheism.

The only way that I could see it coming close is for an atheist to quote passages from the scripture in question and insist they must be taken literally and use those to discredit that whole religion.
There are people that fit this behaviour. But that is of course criticising someone else's scripture rather than actually believing a literal interpretation.

 

[stevil]

So, you agree with me. Thanks.

Umm, I don't agree that they would be fundamentalists, but I do agree that they would be arrogant.

Most atheists aren't arrogant, but some are.

 

[Tom 1]

I assume that Richard doesn't look to the bible at all as an explanation for life.

You’ll have to read that one again, that’s not what I meant.

If you want a more descriptive term I’ll call it a variable agglutination of beliefs. Belief system is an easier shorthand for a broad set of faith-based notions about the world, the universe and everything. That it’s away of thinking with facts in it doesn’t make it factual in a broader sense.

There are quite a lot of texts, Nietzsche is probably a good starting point, that are the authorities of atheism as a worldview. As with the texts relating to any other ‘tribe’ it doesn’t matter whether you have read them or not, they are part of your thinking about the world. Some atheists who post here seem to have the view that they arrived at their atheism independently in some way, as if their views hadn’t ultimately been shaped by ideas embedded in modern society - another belief to add to the pile.

 

[stevil]

You’ll have to read that one again, that’s not what I meant.

OK, sorry, I misunderstood.

There are quite a lot of texts, Nietzsche is probably a good starting point, that are the authorities of atheism as a worldview.

Well I'm no Nietzsche expert, don't know much about him really except that he is a philosopher that is interested in Nihilism????

Perhaps you could make a case that atheism logically leads to nihilism.
I consider myself a moral nihilist and perhaps I am a nihilist too. But I don't consider Nietzsche to be the authority on my worldview.

I mean, I don't need to find an authority on lack of belief in fairies in order to live my live as a true non believer in fairies. What more is there to it?

As with the texts relating to any other ‘tribe’ it doesn’t matter whether you have read them or not, they are part of your thinking about the world.

I don't have to read them or try to live by them to be considered an atheist. I don't need to live any particular philosophy, I don't have to accept ToE, I don't have to be a Nihilist, I don't have to not believe in magic, I don't have to like science. There are no requirements on me in order to be an atheist. It isn't an exclusive group, it isn't a group at all, just a label that is applied to people that happen to not have a belief in gods.

Some atheists who post here seem to have the view that they arrived at their atheism independently in some way, as if their views hadn’t ultimately been shaped by ideas embedded in modern society - another belief to add to the pile.

I was born an atheist. My parents weren't religious so didn't indoctrinate me. I've not heard anything that I consider reasonable with regards to the idea of an invisible intelligent creator. I can't make sense of the bible or Christianity. I just can't make sense of it.

 

[jayem]

It seems that the thread in the Christians only area has been deleted. Why I do not know but it was embarrassing and it seems dishonest to do so.

For the record here are some of the people I most admire. All, all save one are Christians.

Robert Anson Heinlein. The one non Christian and the one who gets me in trouble here whenever I quote him.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer. A very impressive man but also a source of some dislike of certain Christians because of the way they play fast and loose with his life. Try to find any explicitly Christian source that even mentions Wassali Kokorin.

C.S. Lewis who introduced me to my good friend Screwtape (and who credits The Great Knock, his atheist tutor, as being a major contributor to him becoming a Christian).

Bishop Sheil of Chicago. The single incident that jumped him to near the top of the list of men I admire was when he stood up against anti-Semitism which resulted in a female calling him a Jew lover and a n-word lover and spitting in his face and saying he should not be called bishop, he should be called rabbi. The core of his response was "Rabbi, that is what he called Our Lord". There is far more to admire. How many people stood against communism, racism and the loyalty oath of the McCarthy era? He is credited with creating the CYA and under him it permitted no discrimination for race or ethnicity when almost everything else did.

Lutz Long and Tana Umaga. both winners of the Pierre de Coubertin medal. Lutz being the first and Tana as far as I can determine the only athlete to do so in a sport that is not an Olympic sport.

Pierre de Coubertin medal - Wikipedia

Hans Oster. One of the first to see how dangerous Hitler was and who was going to double cross everyone to see him dead. Unfortunately the first Abwer plot fizzled when Czechoslovakia got no help when invades and fell quickly.

Perhaps they will take away my atheist's membership card for doing such a poor job of hating Christians and being ignorant.

I'm not familiar with all of those people, but they seem to be good choices. I'll add one more name. Jimmy Carter. No matter what he did or didn't do as President, he's beyond any doubt the most accomplished ex-President of our lifetime. And the model of what a true Christian man should be.

 

[Tom 1]

Perhaps you could make a case that atheism logically leads to nihilism.
I consider myself a moral nihilist and perhaps I am a nihilist too. But I don't consider Nietzsche to be the authority on my worldview.

Every worldview has its roots in something somebody did, said or wrote that became part of the fabric of society in one way or another. The society in any country is formed by numerous influences, you don’t need to have any knowledge even of what they are to be influenced in your thinking and beliefs, never mind any actual familiarity with any of them.

 

[Tom 1]

Well I'm no Nietzsche expert, don't know much about him really except that he is a philosopher that is interested in Nihilism????

A bunch of ideas in there - ‘God is dead’, or rather the need of the belief in a god and his teachings to define things like a moral code and so on is ‘dead’, the need for ‘supermen’ who would replace god in the sense of defining a new way of being in the world, an essentially might makes right way of thinking, but with an admission that something better would need to ultimately come out of that. Not so much a nihilist but more reaching for a way to move past nihilism once the ‘old ways’ of thinking had been ‘annihilated’. Set off a whole series of knock on influences.

 

[Tom 1]

I mean, I don't need to find an authority on lack of belief in fairies in order to live my live as a true non believer in fairies. What more is there to it?

A thing doesn’t have to be specific or to even enter your awareness in any meaningful way for it to direct your thinking.

 

[stevil]

Every worldview has its roots in something somebody did, said or wrote that became part of the fabric of society in one way or another. The society in any country is formed by numerous influences, you don’t need to have any knowledge even of what they are for to be influenced in your thinking and beliefs, never mind any actual familiarity with any of them.

Sure, but I don't read atheist books. I don't keep up with atheist philosophers.
I don't surround myself with atheists, and my own family is far from academic. My parents wouldn't know what philosophy is, and it was only just a couple of years ago that I explained to my father that he is actual an atheist. He had no idea what the word meant. I don't belong to atheist communities or clubs (if there are any).

So my influences are not atheistic (whatever that means), my influences are from a great diversity of people.

What in particular would be something that goes with the Atheist worldview? Other than non belief in god, and non attendance of church????

 

[stevil]

A thing doesn’t have to be specific or to even enter your awareness in any meaningful way for it to direct your thinking.

Would you consider non belief in fairies to be a belief system rather than a simple non belief in something?

 

[Tom 1]

Would you consider non belief in fairies to be a belief system rather than a simple non belief in something?

No, just that belief or non belief in one thing or another is part of a set of beliefs about the world.

 

[Tom 1]

Sure, but I don't read atheist books. I don't keep up with atheist philosophers.
I don't surround myself with atheists, and my own family is far from academic. My parents wouldn't know what philosophy is, and it was only just a couple of years ago that I explained to my father that he is actual an atheist. He had no idea what the word meant. I don't belong to atheist communities or clubs (if there are any).

So my influences are not atheistic (whatever that means), my influences are from a great diversity of people.

What in particular would be something that goes with the Atheist worldview? Other than non belief in god, and non attendance of church????

Nobody needs to read any of that stuff to be influenced by it. I didn’t read the Epic of Gilgamesh, or Beowulf, or the Canterbury tales, or a lot of other things, before I was out of my teens, but they have all influenced my thinking because the influenced the society I lived in. Every human society is framed and shaped by what went before it. That’s just a basic reality, people don’t grow up in a vacuum. Influences change and develop, what people believe in or don’t believe in changes and develops as a result.

 

[keith99]

Would you consider non belief in fairies to be a belief system rather than a simple non belief in something?

Are you trying to claim that the Sidhe do not exist?

 

[Tom 1]

What in particular would be something that goes with the Atheist worldview? Other than non belief in god, and non attendance of church????

Reasons for being an atheist - presumably there is a fair amount of variability.

 

[stevil]

Reasons for being an atheist - presumably there is a fair amount of variability.

The statement of mine that you quoted wasn't about reasons for being an atheist.
The reason for disbelief is generally because a person is unconvinced about the evidence or the claim or both.

My statement of mine you quoted was a question. Not specifically to you, but to anyone who thinks there is an Atheism or an atheistic belief system.

I mean if you are Christian (i know there is variability in christianity) typically you believe in Jesus as being a god/human and dying and being resurrected and being a salvation from sin. You also believe in sin, believe in sanctity of marriage, believe in holy water, believe in angels and demons, god and satan, heaven and hell, believe god created everything, believe in answered prayer etc It's a whole bunch of things.

With atheists, other than a non belief in gods, what else is there?