Atheistic Catholics?

[Perceivence]

Hey there!

Over on another (a non-Christian) message board, something has puzzled me more than once. I've been hearing people who say that they are Catholic but declare that they don't believe in God. Naturally, I thought this odd, contradictory and non-sensical. So I sort've told one of them what I thought. So went our conversation:

Him: Ok I am Catholic and I have basic Catholic morals. I however do NOT believe in God, and have NO desire to worship someone/thing that isn't really real.

Me: Where do people get the idea that they can be atheistic Catholics from?

Him: Well being both baptised and confirmed, though I don't believe in God, I still can call myself a Catholic, because that's what I am.

Me: Point.

As far as my limited understanding of Catholic doctrine goes, the man is right. But I'm thinking that that cannot - or should not - be the case.

Which is why I'm here.

Thanks.

 

[marciadietrich]

They are just people who had been raised Catholic (so socially somehow consider themselves Catholic still) but are by choice atheists. Same as if a baptist in adulthood rejected God.

It is NOT allowed to be a practicing Catholic in the sacramental life of the Church and be an atheist. Belief in the triune God is essential. They are still baptized (which may be why they would say they are Catholic also - because you can't be unbaptized), and if they had been confirmed then they need only repent and go to confession to be brought back into the Church. Similiar to what a baptist who went atheist would have to do, repent and believe.

Marcia

 

[tdcharles]

Catholicism and God are INSEPARABLE... Catholicism without God is like a bank with no money. Baptism and confirmation aren't just weird ways Catholics "join the club", they have very real spiritual effects, and without faith in them they're pointless.

 

[Kasia]

The one thing I don't get is why this person is boasting about being a Catholic that does not believe in God? If he doesn't believe in God, why does he have the desire to go around telling people he is Catholic?

My answer: Some people seek to be "living, breathing contradictions" because it gets them more attention. So, in my opinion, our little Atheistic Catholic is an insecure attention-seeker.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Catholic means to have faith in THIS particular way of worship for God.

Faithlessness is not Catholic.

Therefore he is not Catholic. If he denies the existence of God, he is just aetheist.

 

[Franze]

There are rare people, an atheist who thinks that is catholic

 

[D'Ann]

I've never heard of such a thing. I agree with Marcia and the others. I consider an athiest who was brought up Catholic, Baptized and confirmed and yet denies the Trinity and/or God's existance is a fallen away Catholic athiest. Perhaps, that is what they mean? We must pray for them.

God's Peace,

Debbie

 

[faerieevaH]

It's quite interesting. It reminds me of a statement in our class about world religions, when our teacher spoke about the jews. He spoke of 'orthodox jews', 'conservative jews', 'liberal jews' and also of jews who were not religious, but did feel they belonged to judaism as part of their cultural, moral and historic tradition.
I guess the atheïst Catholics you describe are those who have a similar feeling. They see themselves more as part of a cultural and moral tradition than as a part of a religion.

 

[ej]

Have you met Loki?

She used to post here a bit, but was told to leave OBOB (by CF staff) because she valued Catholic morals, traditions and teachings, but couldn't make herself believe in Jesus.

 

[Miss Shelby]

One cannot be a Catholic and an atheist at the same time.

Michelle

 

[nyj]

One cannot be a Catholic and an atheist at the same time.

Michelle

True ... to a degree. Catholicism is for many individuals, strongly cultural. It is for me, which has been the only thing to keep me on the course on a number of occassions. This cultural element, IMO, is a Good Thing. In that case, it's similar to Judaism. Orthodoxy has a similar element to it. I do not think this is by mistake ... I think this is a charism given to these faiths. Which is why, when I hear about someone being an atheist, and I hear they were Catholic, I have more hope for them, than I would for someone who was an atheist and was not raised Catholic.

Catholicism, IMO, has a pull to it. It is more coherent, it has more substance, it has a "method to its madness". It's not part of a flimsy "I'm here because there is error everywhere, but there is less error here." culture which seemingly represents Christianity outside of Catholicism (and Orthodoxy). To me, Catholicism stands for something ... that something being the Gospel ... without compromise, totally objective.

So ... this person may be an atheist now, but since he is culturally Catholic ... I give him better odds than other atheists. IMNSHO.

 

[ej]

One cannot be a Catholic and an atheist at the same time.

Michelle

Yeah, so someone who sees the fruits and loves them... but can't swallow the entire credo...

Boot them out. Great idea.

 

[nyj]

Yeah, so someone who sees the fruits and loves them... but can't swallow the entire credo...

Boot them out. Great idea.

OBOB has a fellowship thread which is open to non-believers. Talk has been made to open up a non-believer subforum as well. We're not deaf to the plight of non-believers who wish to talk about Catholicism.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Yeah, so someone who sees the fruits and loves them... but can't swallow the entire credo...

Boot them out. Great idea.

I bet if Loki wanted to identify herself as Catholic (on this board) she could put her icon right back on and start posting.

Michelle

 

[ej]

Talk has been made to open up a non-believer subforum as well. We're not deaf to the plight of non-believers who wish to talk about Catholicism.

That sounds like a great idea

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

As I understand it those who commit formal heresy are excommunicated latae sentinae and no longer 'Catholic' because they have deliberately denied a matter of dogma. To say "I am Catholic but deliberately don't believe in [insert any Catholic dogma here--from the existence of God to the all-male ordained priesthood]" is a contradiction in terms. But I would love for all formal heretics who are nominally Catholic to return to the Faith, and they are always welcome.

Peace be with you.

 

[ej]

But I would love for all formal heretics who are nominally Catholic to return to the Faith, and they are always welcome.

I agree, Robbie

Because from my limited experience, there seem to be 2 main 'heretical' groups:

1) Those whose understanding or knowlegde of the Church is limited, and those who may have fallen victim to anti-Catholic untruths about the faith

2) Those who struggle with living up to the standards required by the Church (and I include myself in this group!) and are constantly pulled by the secular lifestyle.

I do not include deliberate atheists who were 'born Catholic,' or brought up Catholic, because I doubt these people would have sufficient interest to post and ask questions in OBOB. But for the 2 broad groups I mentioned above, I think nyj's suggestion could be an extremely valuable addition to OBOB.

 

[geocajun]

Nobody is catholic by nature, but its our belief which makes us catholic. Jews for example are Jewish by race (nature), thus one can be an atheist, and be Jewish. This is not the case for Catholics.
Nobody is born Catholic except by baptism. If someone ceases to believe as a catholic, they cease to be catholic.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to geocajun again.

 

[nyj]

Nobody is born Catholic except by baptism. If someone ceases to believe as a catholic, they cease to be catholic.

The prodigal son did not cease to be the son of his father simply because he walked away with his inheritance. As such, the Catholic Church teaches that the three Sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders leave an indelible mark on the recipient.

The word indelible is important here ... it literally means that it cannot be removed, washed away or erased.

CCC 1121 The three sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy Orders confer, in addition to grace, a sacramental character or "seal" by which the Christian shares in Christ's priesthood and is made a member of the Church according to different states and functions. This configuration to Christ and to the Church, brought about by the Spirit, is indelible, it remains for ever in the Christian as a positive disposition for grace, a promise and guarantee of divine protection, and as a vocation to divine worship and to the service of the Church. Therefore these sacraments can never be repeated.

We may forsake God, but He never forsakes us!