FireDragon76

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True. I have always gone for good looks in a girl or woman. That's what attracts me. Worse yet they must have a 'certain' beauty as well. I'm a snob about that and not every beautiful woman is appealing to me.

That's typical for males. But some guys who have no luck with women only confine themselves to people that are highly physically attractive instead of looking at relationships in a more mature and open-minded way, realizing that physical attraction is just one aspect of a relationship.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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... like all Christian women are automatically nuns in their spirituality. That's not how it works. I think he's actually projecting his own inner feelings as a pastor onto women.
Yes, I think I can agree with you, and with Rachel Oates in the OP video, in saying that he tends to exaggerate a bit or to slightly misconstrue what women, even Christian women, are "really doing."

Moreover, on just the experiential level, I can say that I was somewhat like the guy in the video when I first became a Christian 30 years ago. And I think my view of women back then was shaped by the somewhat neutral and/or dismissive reactions I tended to get from women, especially when I was interested in dating them. :dontcare:

30 years later, I now understand some of the social, psychological, biological, and even economic considerations that go into some women's 'choices' of certain types of men.

I have no doubt those types of women are real.
Yes, they are real, but I don't know how common they really are in each society.

I think some men are picky, too, and in a very superficial way.
Good point! There is that other side of the equation ...
 
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2PhiloVoid

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True. I have always gone for good looks in a girl or woman. That's what attracts me. Worse yet they must have a 'certain' beauty as well. I'm a snob about that and not every beautiful woman is appealing to me.

Most guys like a pretty face. But, I think also Hugh Hefner didn't help things out much in that regard. I'm not sure that feeling like this >>> :hot:<<< all of the time is necessarily a sign of psychological (or spiritual) health. ;)
 
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PreviouslySeeking...

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To be honest, I have difficulty believing this guy actually knows women and is married.

That wasn't advice for general Christian women who are single. It was more a smarmy clapback to previous girlfriends or something. It was a video for Christian men to feel better about their failed relationships, "it wasn't your fault Bro!"

His tone was way off to be considered "helpful".

I'm not saying all of his points were wrong, but I agree with Rachel that he presented them in the most offensive way he could, turning off the audience he claims he hopes to reach.

Additionally, I think he was gilding the lily a bit, I doubt the pastor is really suggesting that most CHRISTIAN women are single because they are entitled, spoiled children with unrealistic desires because that is pretty much what they said.

He gave me all the bad vibes, especially when he talked about men trying to talk women into relationships. There is a subset of Christian man who believes that if he is a good Christian, he deserves the woman of his choosing and if she is a good Christian - she will accept him. Women are supposed to want good Christian men & anything else is superficial. Men are the only ones who are entitled to want more than the minimum. I remember those guys from when I did attend church, they were creepy.
 
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Rivga

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Quick question, is there actual a particular problem with Christian Girls being single, so over any other religion or non-religion.

Do any statistics support this?

One of the biggest disadvantages touted about atheism is the lack of community, essentially not having a set day we all get together in the same place. This is because Atheism is not a religion, and cannot really be compared.
But Certainly those Atheists that come from ex-religious communities stated this being the biggest difference and some state the it delays them coming out as Atheist by a good number of years.

So this seems to fly in the face of my current view.
 
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Rivga

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There is a subset of Christian man who believes that if he is a good Christian, he deserves the woman of his choosing and if she is a good Christian - she will accept him. Women are supposed to want good Christian men & anything else is superficial. Men are the only ones who are entitled to want more than the minimum. I remember those guys from when I did attend church, they were creepy.

Yeah, I think you may have a full understanding of the guys position.

He was certainly building a straw man of the Christian women's position, "they are looking for someone who can walk on water" or close to.

If it turns out he is correct then that is a sad indictment to the priests and pastors teaching them. If you are a Christian teacher and you have not managed to get over to your female congress that Jesus was one of a kind, I think, even as an Atheist, I am on safe ground to state you have failed. (remind me again what sex are most religious teachers?)
 
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2PhiloVoid

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To be honest, I have difficulty believing this guy actually knows women and is married.

That wasn't advice for general Christian women who are single. It was more a smarmy clapback to previous girlfriends or something. It was a video for Christian men to feel better about their failed relationships, "it wasn't your fault Bro!"

His tone was way off to be considered "helpful".

I'm not saying all of his points were wrong, but I agree with Rachel that he presented them in the most offensive way he could, turning off the audience he claims he hopes to reach.

Additionally, I think he was gilding the lily a bit, I doubt the pastor is really suggesting that most CHRISTIAN women are single because they are entitled, spoiled children with unrealistic desires because that is pretty much what they said.

He gave me all the bad vibes, especially when he talked about men trying to talk women into relationships. There is a subset of Christian man who believes that if he is a good Christian, he deserves the woman of his choosing and if she is a good Christian - she will accept him. Women are supposed to want good Christian men & anything else is superficial. Men are the only ones who are entitled to want more than the minimum. I remember those guys from when I did attend church, they were creepy.

Hi Previously Seeking,

Thanks for the great comments. I enjoyed reading them. The name of the 'guy in the video' as I've been calling him is Justin. And he is married. I think some of his problem with his message reflects his youth, is frustrations, and his exuberant personality. So, I don't know that he really qualifies as a "creepy" type of guy. However, even as a guy, I understand you well when you mention that some guys can be "creepy," even Christian ones. Yes, they can.

You're also right that men in general have typically had a double-standard; men can expect the only the best, do what they want, AND act shocked that women might not want to fulfill the roles of maternal keepers of the Eternal Virtue. I know this because ... I've hardly encountered any Christian women who would have told me they wanted to "marry Jesus." When Justin said that in the video, I had to side with Rachel Oates and say, "What????"

Anyway thank you for sharing your ideas on this. :cool:

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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2PhiloVoid

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That's typical for males. But some guys who have no luck with women only confine themselves to people that are highly physically attractive instead of looking at relationships in a more mature and open-minded way, realizing that physical attraction is just one aspect of a relationship.

That's an excellent point! :oldthumbsup:
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Quick question, is there actual a particular problem with Christian Girls being single, so over any other religion or non-religion.

Do any statistics support this?
No, I don't think Justin (i.e. the guy in the video) has stats. He is apparently a Christian speaker with his own youtube channel, and I think he's projecting some 'truth' onto what he's saying because he referred to some article he saw online, AND probably from having spoken to young people in various churches, and so on and so forth.

One of the biggest disadvantages touted about atheism is the lack of community, essentially not having a set day we all get together in the same place. This is because Atheism is not a religion, and cannot really be compared.
But Certainly those Atheists that come from ex-religious communities stated this being the biggest difference and some state the it delays them coming out as Atheist by a good number of years.

So this seems to fly in the face of my current view.
I can appreciate this, but...did you by chance watch any of the video?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Yeah, I think you may have a full understanding of the guys position.

He was certainly building a straw man of the Christian women's position, "they are looking for someone who can walk on water" or close to.

If it turns out he is correct then that is a sad indictment to the priests and pastors teaching them. If you are a Christian teacher and you have not managed to get over to your female congress that Jesus was one of a kind, I think, even as an Atheist, I am on safe ground to state you have failed. (remind me again what sex are most religious teachers?)

Ok. I guess you did watch some of it in order to respond like this.

Anyway, I still think Justin was projecting something he thinks he sees among today's younger generations. Or else the people at the churches he interacts with have really sheltered and spoiled lives.... (could be in some cases?):dontcare:
 
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Rivga

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No, I don't think Justin (i.e. the guy in the video) has stats. He is apparently a Christian speaker with his own youtube channel, and I think he's projecting some 'truth' onto what he's saying because he referred to some article he saw online, AND probably from having spoken to young people in various churches, and so on and so forth.

I can appreciate this, but...did you by chance watch any of the video?

So the reason I asked for specific statistics on the subject is that Justin asserts that

There is a lot more single women
and that the reason for this is:
They are creating unrealistic expectations of men by comparing them to Jesus.

So if we assume that Justin is correct then we' expect to see 2 things:
1) A significant increase in Single women
2) This increase to be more pronounced in Christian communities.*

* I have taken a leap of logic and assumed that Non-Christian women are much less likely to be comparing Jesus to potential partners.

Now I know that this generation has seen a increase in single people, but what I cannot establish is if this increases is consistent across the Christian community (in which would make the Justins view less likely) or if there is a particular issue with Christian women (in which would help support, but not prove, Justins view).
 
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2PhiloVoid

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So the reason I asked for specific statistics on the subject is that Justin asserts that

There is a lot more single women
and that the reason for this is:
They are creating unrealistic expectations of men by comparing them to Jesus.

So if we assume that Justin is correct then we' expect to see 2 things:
1) A significant increase in Single women
2) This increase to be more pronounced in Christian communities.*

* I have taken a leap of logic and assumed that Non-Christian women are much less likely to be comparing Jesus to potential partners.

Now I know that this generation has seen a increase in single people, but what I cannot establish is if this increases is consistent across the Christian community (in which would make the Justins view less likely) or if there is a particular issue with Christian women (in which would help support, but not prove, Justins view).

What you've said here is reasonable and shows that Justin got ahead of himself in making claims about women (Christian woman, but other women can be insinuated), especially in some of this more offhanded comments about "dirtbags" and/or guys with a "few dollar in their pockets." In light of what Rachel Oates said in her video about Justin, I think we can agree with her that he generalized in an unsubstantial way some segments of both the male and female population.

But, is this to say that nothing he said is true to any extent? What to do think, Rivga? Did anything he say ring a bell as to how some women approach and/or treat prospective men in general?
 
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Rivga

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But, is this to say that nothing he said is true to any extent? What to do think, Rivga? Did anything he say ring a bell as to how some women approach and/or treat prospective men in general?

There exists some evidence to support unrealistic expectations, but here in the UK we are seeing it across both male and female. But this seems to be a minor effect compared with the general trend of forming relationships, getting married and having children.

This also comes at a time when the pub and club scene is being reduced, traditional places for men and women to meet.
Then statistics showing if you work in a male dominated or female dominated work place you are much more likely to be single, supporting the view that reduced opportunities to meet people of the opposite sex also increase likelihood to being single (which seems obvious).

All this on top less and less people define themselves on there family situation. To phase that a little better people stating "I don't care if I am single, rather that then being with the wrong person." -> this is the case for both sexes but has become males are increasingly falling into this.

I am still not doing this justice, but you can see it is complicated with multiple factors applying pressure to what we considered the norm.
 
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Gadarene

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The "nice guy" is what our society traditionally regarded as one ideal for manhood. Many Feminists tends to be suspicious of anything traditional, as being fake and having some deep roots in "Patriarchy" in a conspiratorial way. At least they regard the "jerk boyfriend" as authentic (he's just being a man, after all), and not just a cultivated product of "the Patriarchy".

Lol, what nonsense. Both are constructed, or are we saying that guys who are actually crappy to women aren’t now products of the patriarchy? If so, most feminists need to be updated on this because they’re sorely apparently misinformed - they seem to think such behaviour is patriarchal. Yet some of the. still don’t go for guys who don’t do that and are closer to the ideals they claim to be interested in.

Additionally, never was there a period of history where women were expected to be the initiator. Men always have been, which is why the nice guy approach is best interpreted as non-conventionally-masculine.
 
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Gadarene

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To be honest, I have difficulty believing this guy actually knows women and is married.

That wasn't advice for general Christian women who are single. It was more a smarmy clapback to previous girlfriends or something. It was a video for Christian men to feel better about their failed relationships, "it wasn't your fault Bro!”

His tone was way off to be considered "helpful".

I'm not saying all of his points were wrong, but I agree with Rachel that he presented them in the most offensive way he could, turning off the audience he claims he hopes to reach.

Additionally, I think he was gilding the lily a bit, I doubt the pastor is really suggesting that most CHRISTIAN women are single because they are entitled, spoiled children with unrealistic desires because that is pretty much what they said.

He gave me all the bad vibes, especially when he talked about men trying to talk women into relationships. There is a subset of Christian man who believes that if he is a good Christian, he deserves the woman of his choosing and if she is a good Christian - she will accept him. Women are supposed to want good Christian men & anything else is superficial. Men are the only ones who are entitled to want more than the minimum. I remember those guys from when I did attend church, they were creepy.

And yet this is how so many women talk about men, in print, and it’s considered acceptable.

The point here re. your comment is - so what?
 
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Gadarene

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also right that men in general have typically had a double-standard; men can expect the only the best, do what they want, AND act shocked that women might not want to fulfill the roles of maternal keepers of the Eternal Virtue.

Again - so what? Plenty of guys know women who act the same way, and might not want to be the role of paternal provider. The pastor in the video doesn’t seem to. Can’t say I blame him.

When men stand up for themselves the same way women do (which often involves generalisation) people fall over themselves to crap on them, but it’s stunning and brave when women do it. Makes no darn sense.
 
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FireDragon76

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Lol, what nonsense. Both are constructed, or are we saying that guys who are actually crappy to women aren’t now products of the patriarchy? If so, most feminists need to be updated on this because they’re sorely apparently misinformed - they seem to think such behaviour is patriarchal. Yet some of the. still don’t go for guys who don’t do that and are closer to the ideals they claim to be interested in.

Additionally, never was there a period of history where women were expected to be the initiator. Men always have been, which is why the nice guy approach is best interpreted as non-conventionally-masculine.

I don't think being a nice guy means being passive, necessarily.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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There exists some evidence to support unrealistic expectations, but here in the UK we are seeing it across both male and female. But this seems to be a minor effect compared with the general trend of forming relationships, getting married and having children.
It sounds similar to what is gradually transpiring in the U.S. to some extent.

This also comes at a time when the pub and club scene is being reduced, traditional places for men and women to meet.
Then statistics showing if you work in a male dominated or female dominated work place you are much more likely to be single, supporting the view that reduced opportunities to meet people of the opposite sex also increase likelihood to being single (which seems obvious).
This may be the case, but don't people in the U.K. use "dating apps" on their i-phones?

All this on top less and less people define themselves on there family situation. To phase that a little better people stating "I don't care if I am single, rather that then being with the wrong person." -> this is the case for both sexes but has become males are increasingly falling into this.
That's an interesting observation to take note of. I think may be happening elsewhere in other European countries as well. It would be interesting to research this trend.

I am still not doing this justice, but you can see it is complicated with multiple factors applying pressure to what we considered the norm.
I think what you've said is a thoughtful reply, and I can understand very what you're telling us. Thanks for sharing your ideas on how the complexity of this is playing out in your part of the world. ;)
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Again - so what? Plenty of guys know women who act the same way, and might not want to be the role of paternal provider. The pastor in the video doesn’t seem to. Can’t say I blame him.

When men stand up for themselves the same way women do (which often involves generalisation) people fall over themselves to crap on them, but it’s stunning and brave when women do it. Makes no darn sense.

That's an interesting view on this material. What do you think of Rachel Oates criticisms of Justin in her video? Is she right? Or, is she overreacting? I ask because I notice you've identified yourself as an atheist and Rachel is an atheist, not a Christian. So, I'm wondering what atheistic men think about these issues, too. ;)
 
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That's an interesting view on this material. What do you thing of Rachel Oates criticisms of Justin in her video? Is she right? Or, is she overreacting? I ask because I notice you've identified yourself as an atheist and Rachel is an atheist, not a Christian. So, I'm wondering what atheistic men think about these issues, too. ;)

There is a big divide between MRA atheists and feminist atheists.

And they accuse us Christians of having tons of different arguing factions...
 
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