Atheist ethics, atheist values

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redwards

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Without it there is still absolute truth of what happened.
Certainly, though we may never discover what it is.

Whether that analogy holds true for issues of morality is, of course, subject to different opinions. And because the video camera doesn't exist, there can't be a definitive answer to the question, even if everyone agrees.

Fair enough, but we have the evidence of nature that the weak should be weeded out, women treated as only females of the species for what females are for, and we have justice by tooth and claw, cunning and instinct.

If you interpret realities as moralities, you may be predisposed to that opinion. I don't see any reason to do this.

There are no accidents in nature. Just outcomes.
As far as evidence demonstrates, there is no intent in nature. Outcomes are neither accidental nor intentional.

A gazelle is jogging with some buddies, stumbles and sprains his ankle. He is now lunch.
Is there a smiley for :shrug: ?
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Certainly, though we may never discover what it is.

Kind of an unenlightened point of view.

Whether that analogy holds true for issues of morality is, of course, subject to different opinions.

Not to victims of the immoral.

And because the video camera doesn't exist, there can't be a definitive answer to the question, even if everyone agrees.

Then there is no justice. Just get what you can how you can. Naturalism ethics and values. Naturalism is another word for atheism.

If you interpret realities as moralities, you may be predisposed to that opinion.

Reality, and indeed actuality, are the foundations of morality. Otherwise there wouldn't be lines on highways and roads etc., etc..

I don't see any reason to do this.

I doubt that. Otherwise atheists wouldn't object to creationism being taught in schools.

As far as evidence demonstrates, there is no intent in nature. Outcomes are neither accidental nor intentional.

And how is that not atheist ethics and values? We, just being a part of naturalism.

Is there a smiley for :shrug: ?

So you do practice naturalism. Notice no gazelles scream for help from the Zebras when being victimized by the predators. Good example of atheist ethics and values.

I appreciate your honesty.

Now, let me ask you, if you were to get robbed by a stronger man, would you complain about it, or just go on, and thank abiogenesis that you are still alive? Of course where do emotions of being wronged even enter naturalism anyway?
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Now, let me ask you, if you were to get robbed by a stronger man, would you complain about it, or just go on, and thank abiogenesis that you are still alive? Of course where do emotions of being wronged even enter naturalism anyway?
Self-survival. Notice that carnivorous social species (e.g., lions) don't (usually) eat each other: it makes for a self-destructive society. In humans, this "don't be dumb and eat/kill/harm other humans" instinct is the root source of such traits as altruism and empathy.
 
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IzzyPop

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Kind of an unenlightened point of view.
Not at all. It takes a much more enlightened person to admit "I don't know" instead of make something up and then stick to it in the face of contradictory evidence.



Not to victims of the immoral.
Mixing analogies and moving the goal posts all at the same time. Good for you.:thumbsup:



Then there is no justice. Just get what you can how you can. Naturalism ethics and values. Naturalism is another word for atheism.
Of course there is justice. We mete it out on a daily basis.



Reality, and indeed actuality, are the foundations of morality. Otherwise there wouldn't be lines on highways and roads etc., etc..
I don't get it.:scratch:



I doubt that. Otherwise atheists wouldn't object to creationism being taught in schools.
Now this is a non sequiter. What does morality have to do with allowing creationism to be taught?



And how is that not atheist ethics and values? We, just being a part of naturalism.
Ummm...Becsause we have intent.



So you do practice naturalism. Notice no gazelles scream for help from the Zebras when being victimized by the predators. Good example of atheist ethics and values.

I appreciate your honesty.

Now, let me ask you, if you were to get robbed by a stronger man, would you complain about it, or just go on, and thank abiogenesis that you are still alive? Of course where do emotions of being wronged even enter naturalism anyway?
You have no idea what atheism is. To extrapolate what kinds of ethics your imaginary version of atheism would entail is nothing more than mental masturbation. Come back when you want to deal with reality.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Not at all. It takes a much more enlightened person to admit "I don't know" instead of make something up and then stick to it in the face of contradictory evidence.
Mixing analogies and moving the goal posts all at the same time. Good for you.Of course there is justice. We mete it out on a daily basis.
I don't get it.Now this is a non sequiter. What does morality have to do with allowing creationism to be taught?Ummm...Becsause we have intent.
You have no idea what atheism is. To extrapolate what kinds of ethics your imaginary version of atheism would entail is nothing more than mental masturbation.

Come back when you want to deal with reality.

Yet I did and your reasoning about reality was stopped dead in its tracks.



:cool:
 
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b&wpac4

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Yet I did and your reasoning about reality was stopped dead in its tracks.

Don't you ever tired of:

[Insert snarky comment that doesn't exactly relate to the topic at hand]
[mention you get your knowledge "from reality" even if it's only from your head]
[add sunglasses icon]
?
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Nice. Care to address my points or since I can pee farther than you, I win?

One liners do not a point make? Is that what you're saying?

Um, er, in your one-liner?

I've answered your questions in great detail in many places. I just don't like playing on the merry-go-round of secular self-justification all that often with people that need to have the upper hand of the last word to somehow support the unsupportable position that secularism has brought actual enlightement to earth. It's brought a thriving worlwide inappropriate content industry and abortion on demand and a family makeup where fathers hardly exist, and some cool cellphones, but as to improving human life? Not much different than Molech worship. Actually, as a well placed "non-sequitor," it seems almost the same thing, sans the religious taglines.

But still, I love you guys right?

:cool:
 
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IzzyPop

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One liners do not a point make? Is that what you're saying?

Um, er, in your one-liner?

I've answered your questions in great detail in many places. I just don't like playing on the merry-go-round of secular self-justification all that often with people that need to have the upper hand of the last word to somehow support the unsupportable position that secularism has brought actual enlightement to earth. It's brought a thriving worlwide inappropriate content industry and abortion on demand and a family makeup where fathers hardly exist, and some cool cellphones, but as to improving human life? Not much different than Molech worship. Actually, as a well placed "non-sequitor," it seems almost the same thing, sans the religious taglines.

But still, I love you guys right?

:cool:
Right, because religious people don't have abortions, don't watch inappropriate content, and don't get divorces, right? Oh, wait. They do all of those things at a higher rate than us evil atheists. But at least y'all are forgiven when you use the offices of the late Dr. Tiller or watch 2 Girls, 1 Cup with a bottle of lotion in hand.

But, no, it's more fun to paint some bastardized version of atheism, complete with 'might makes right' and erroneous mathematical 'proofs', up on the wall to mock and knock around instead of dealing with the actual arguments we present. And, when we do raise those arguments, you brush them aside with a quick non sequiter and instead attack the straw man of your own construction.

Look, I understand that it is easier to debate yourself than it is to debate other people. But, if you want to try it sometime, I'm here for you. Until then, I'll just call you on your logical fallacies every time I see them.

:cool:
 
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redwards

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Kind of an unenlightened point of view.
How do you figure?

Not to victims of the immoral.
Wow, what a total nonsensical red herring. Morality does not become a black and white issue because people sometimes get hurt.

If I accidentally knocked you down and broke your arm because I was chasing a purse-snatcher, would you be considered a victim of the moral?

Then there is no justice. Just get what you can how you can. Naturalism ethics and values. Naturalism is another word for atheism.
Extrapolate from the analogy however you like, it doesn't change the fact that there is no final, universal arbiter of morality available to all of us. The analogy of the car accident and the video camera, which you proposed, is an amusing one, and does demonstrate the array of interpretations likely to be gleaned from various people with different perspectives, but the video camera solution to that problem is, as I said before, unavailable to us in the real world, as it pertains to morality.

Reality, and indeed actuality, are the foundations of morality. Otherwise there wouldn't be lines on highways and roads etc., etc..

I doubt that. Otherwise atheists wouldn't object to creationism being taught in schools.
For the life of me, I don't see how either of these responses make even a modicum of sense. Do you want to try again?

And how is that not atheist ethics and values? We, just being a part of naturalism.
As I said before, outcomes are not analogous to morals. Just because a thing is natural does not imply to me that it is necessarily good or bad. It simply is. How a person treats another person is something I may deign to describe as moral or immoral.

So you do practice naturalism. Notice no gazelles scream for help from the Zebras when being victimized by the predators. Good example of atheist ethics and values.
Atheists do not have a uniform set of ethics, and your scenario does not relate to ethics of any kind. It seems that your entire post is designed to paint all atheists with your broad brush of amorality. Is the preponderance of my discussion with you really going have to be me telling you that the wild and rapid conclusions that you toss out are irrelevant nonsense?

I appreciate your honesty.
I don't appreciate your constant mis-attributions. For someone arguing morality from a Christian standpoint, you spend a lot of time lying.

Now, let me ask you, if you were to get robbed by a stronger man, would you complain about it, or just go on, and thank abiogenesis that you are still alive? Of course where do emotions of being wronged even enter naturalism anyway?
Yes, we get it, you think that anyone who does not digest morality from a religion must practice pure moral nihilism, and you deign to attribute that to every atheist on the planet.

While it is possible to make an amusing wisecrack about misrepresenting someone else's position every once in a while, it's not generally advisable to stake out an argumentative position based wholly upon intentionally misrepresenting the position of an entire group of people.

If you want to get into a discussion about how I, personally, interpret morality, I'll start by calling your post immoral.
 
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sidhe

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[serious];52234599 said:

That post also required tapping two swamps to play.

Reality: check it out sometime.

:cool:

ETA: By special request, the VTES version -

That post required you to sacrifice ten blood counters and have two minions in play.

Reality: it's what the cool kids are doing.

:cool:
 
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redwards

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That post also required tapping two swamps to play.

Reality: check it out sometime.

:cool:

ETA: By special request, the VTES version -

That post required you to sacrifice ten blood counters and have two minions in play.

Reality: it's what the cool kids are doing.

:cool:

wat
 
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sidhe

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Watson was Holmes' assistant in both book and film adaptations. This proves the failure of atheism. In reality. And practice.

:cool:

(this is seriously therapeutic)
 
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Belk

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That post also required tapping two swamps to play.

Reality: check it out sometime.

:cool:

ETA: By special request, the VTES version -

That post required you to sacrifice ten blood counters and have two minions in play.

Reality: it's what the cool kids are doing.

:cool:


But I can tap two oceans and that gives me enough mana for a counterspell. Take that reality! :p

(Man I miss playing magic)
 
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