Atheist Ask " Why Is Faith in Jesus NOT Delusional?"

[Trimeresurus]

I haven't called anyone delusional?

No you have been called delisional. Just wanted to give you a possible explanation why.

 

[Sam91]

No you have been called delisional. Just wanted to give you a possible explanation why.

I don't mind being called delusional .... well not for my beliefs anyway.

 

[SheldonCooper]

It wouldn't mean that you were correct.

I couldn't agree on that assessment. I have too much respect for the said individuals. Besides, they share my own beliefs.

From your theological stand point I wouldn't be. However, your assessment is clearly biased which is typical when dealing with religious individuals. I don't think it's because you have " too much " respect for the individuals, rather it's literally because they do share your own beliefs. It's because of that, that you have " too much " respect for the individuals.

Clearly, if they didn't share your views you would have the minimal level of respect for them.

 

[Trimeresurus]

I don't mind being called delusional .... well not for my beliefs anyway.

A long discussion for something you don't mind about. That might be a delusion.

 

[Sam91]

From your theological stand point I wouldn't be. However, your assessment is clearly biased which is typical when dealing with religious individuals. I don't think it's because you have " too much " respect for the individuals, rather it's literally because they do share your own beliefs. It's because of that, that you have " too much " respect for the individuals.

Clearly, if they didn't share your views you would have the minimal level of respect for them.

Not really. I respect people who disagree with me. I even respect you.

I find the delusion issue interesting. Atheists thing people with religious views are delusioned. Christians think non Christians are delusioned. Muslims think non Muslims likewise. Racists think non racists delusioned. Basically it is a frame of mind if you choose to think that others are delusioned. I do not use that word in life as a rule.

I esteem others regardless.

 

[Sam91]

A long discussion for something you don't mind about. That might be a delusion.

No I stumbled on this about an hour ago Have only read first post and the last page. I like being unique so to be called delusional would make me smile... Maybe that shows other issues?

 

[Trimeresurus]

No I stumbled on this about an hour ago Have only read first post and the last page. I like being unique so to be called delusional would make me smile... Maybe that shows other issues?

Need a psychologist? Better not choose me, I'm a very bad one. I can turn a patient from depressed to suicidal in about a week.
Seriously we all have our delusions. Telling others about their delusions somehow frees people from minding their own. Concentration on other people being stupid helps people to not see their own stupidity. It is a projection of own problems. So I don't mind about other peoples religion too much. My interest is on a intellectual level but I'm not here to make all the christians follow my beliefe. In other words: I'm happy to learn about your delusions.

 

[SheldonCooper]

Not really. I respect people who disagree with me. I even respect you.

I clearly said you would have the minimal level of respect for individuals who didn't share your beliefs. It's still giving respect, just not on the same level as you would those who share your views. For example..

You: Hello, my glorious brother in the Lord, it's so good to see you today!!
Person who shares your view: Hello, brother from another mother but we all have the same Father. Amen!

You: Hello, Mr. Cooper.
Me: Hello.

See the difference? That's what I'm telling you.

 

[Sam91]

Need a psychologist? Better not choose me, I'm a very bad one. I can turn a patient from depressed to suicidal in about a week.
Seriously we all have our delusions. Telling others about their delusions somehow frees people from minding their own. Concentration on other people being stupid helps people to not see their own stupidity. It is a projection of own problems. So I don't mind about other peoples religion too much. My interest is on a intellectual level but I'm not here to make all the christians follow my beliefe. In other words: I'm happy to learn about your delusions.

I actually have a college/school interview today to get on a course to study psychology as a mature student. Something I've been interested in all my life.

You're probably not a bad psychologist. Poking around in someones head will interfere with buried issues when they already can't cope with life on the surface. I guess it takes a lot of tact and insight to do that. Personally the idea scares me so all credit to you and your bravery trying to help others in that regard.

I agree with you that pointing out others mistakes is often a projection. I notice myself doing that often and that when there is strife it often comes from the self.

 

[SheldonCooper]

Need a psychologist? Better not choose me, I'm a very bad one. I can turn a patient from depressed to suicidal in about a week.

Your probably not a bad psychologist.

In my professional opinion, Sam91, I think you are going to have a difficult time in college as a mature student.

 

[Sam91]

I clearly said you would have the minimal level of respect for individuals who didn't share your beliefs. It's still giving respect, just not on the same level as you would those who share your views. For example..

You: Hello, my glorious brother in the Lord, it's so good to see you today!!
Person who shares your view: Hello, brother from another mother but we all have the same Father. Amen!

You: Hello, Mr. Cooper.
Me: Hello.

See the difference? That's what I'm telling you.

I see your point. However, I only say 'Hello' to everyone and smile. I'm British, reserved and an introvert. I think the difference between how I feel towards those who share my beliefs is that I have a little more to talk about. It doesn't completely take away the quandary of what on earth I need to say next to continue a dialogue and whether I ought to ask them a question about themselves or if it is too personal. So your example doesn't fit. I'm going to bid you a good day. I have used up my free time. Have a good day though.

 

[SheldonCooper]

So your example doesn't fit.

It wasn't meant to fit. It was meant to illustrate what I initially stated.

 

[Trimeresurus]

I actually have a college/school interview today to get on a course to study psychology as a mature student. Something I've been interested in all my life.

Your probably not a bad psychologist. Poking around in someones head will interfere with buried issues when they already can't cope with life on the surface. I guess it takes a lot of tact and insight to do that. Personally the idea scares me so all credit to you and your bravery trying to help others in that regard.

I agree with you that pointing out others mistakes is often a projection. I notice myself doing that often and that when there is strife it often comes from the self.

Are you good at math? 50% of the whole bachelor degree is about stochastics and statistics.
It is a very interesting field of study, indeed.
But I don't work as a psychologist anymore. I decided to go for electrical engenieering instead. Resistors and ICs don't suffer from PTSD so they are much more confortable to handle.
If you are the kind of person that is neither too sensitive to keep emotional distance nor too distant to be empathic it might be the right thing for you. I'm very to distant an cynical for this.

 

[Trimeresurus]

In my professional opinion, Sam91, I think you are going to have a difficult time in college as a mature student.

Your professional opinion is based on what?

 

[Sam91]

Are you good at math? 50% of the whole bachelor degree is about stochastics and statistics.
It is a very interesting field of study, indeed.
But I don't work as a psychologist anymore. I decided to go for electrical engenieering instead. Resistors and ICs don't suffer from PTSD so they are much more confortable to handle.
If you are the kind of person that is neither too sensitive to keep emotional distance nor too distant to be empathical it might be the right thing for you. I'm very to distant an cynical for this.

Yes, the tutor said that I aced the entry tests. Was top out of everyone in English and scored A1 on the Maths.

I am too empathetic to be a phsychologist. I would like to be a support worker but with an accounts background and gaps in my CV (nursing dying partner and being a mum) no one will interview me for jobs in that sector. I'm hoping to become more employable again. I am not sure what to do after but have a year to choose.

@SheldonCooper I have no idea what your first point was. So I am sorry. You replied to me about my post. My view was that I wouldn't call those I know who are Christians deluded. You said you would? That is your choice and you are free to hold it.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I love the guys answer, because the cross is historical fact, death burial and resurrection. No other religion has a living savior who ascended to heaven in any form of recorded history..

Claiming the resurrection as historical fact stretches it further than any professional historian would go. Consensus holds that there was probably a historical Jesus who was executed on a cross, yes, but the rest belongs in the realm of religion and faith, not history and facts. (And please, do not copy and paste the usual extra-biblical sources where Roman historians summed up the beliefs of Christians a century later. They tell us little except for: "There are Christians who believe that their founder rose from the dead and is a divine saviour."

I would add that when one is born again you can not escape the change that occurs in ones own life.

And yet, we don't see saintly ubermenschen being in any way more exemplary or virtuous than others who do not embrace the same (or any) religion. "Born-again" evangelicals have got the highest divorce rates. Similar statistics hold true for gun violence. And I'm sure we could find even more.
And while morally excellent Christians most certainly exist, so do equally upright non-Christians: atheist doctors treating homeless people for free, Buddhist nurses tending to lepers, neo-pagans working in charities, etc.
You don't have any monopoly on good conduct, nor even an exceptionally good track record on common human decency.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This passage doesn't tell me that.

No servant of the devil hears what Jesus says.
The whole world serves the demons, not Jesus, to start with.
Most die that way, thus never receiving eternal life.
A few by faith turn to Jesus to be saved.
The others die in their sin, without repentance, without a sacrifice for their sinful lives,
without atonement by the blood, and after they die, there is no more any sacrifice for their sin if they did not repent while alive.
Everyone chooses one way or the other.
Most choose death.....
That is nothing new.

 

[FIRESTORM314]

No. It's the study of the human mind. However, I'm aware that you have " sinful thoughts " that you rebuke in the name of Jesus thus your thought life doesn't necessarily reflect your behavior given the reality of the belief system that you live according to.

What goes on in the mind affects your behaviour and therefore observing the behaviour gives some clue what goes on in the mind.

Jesus said what is conceived in the heart also affects your behaviour. This "heart" I believe is at the spiritual level. It can be manipulated spiritually without any detection unless you are actually spiritually aware. This I suspect is deeper than the flesh of the mind - and who among us can read minds? Have you ever heard the spiritual voices that whisper to your soul and influence you at the spiritual level? There is no God - it silenty whispers to you.

Have you ever heard this voice Sheldon?- I have !

My thoughts are higher than your thoughts says the Lord.

I think God might say something like this to you...

"Do you think you can fix the problem with mankind? - surely you have noticed there is a problem? - Do you not know there is a poisonous snake venom running through your veins and you will die - would you like me to move aside? - do you know what the problem actually is and where it originated? - can you instruct all mankind to follow your instructions? - can you bring order & will they gladly listen and do as you say? - can you command death to let it's prisoners go free? - no - death awaits you ! - I am passionate about the problem with mankind -so much that it was something worth dying for - do you have a passion worth dying for? "

We Christians have died with Christ - one aspect of it means yeilding to God - surrendering to him.

What is Sin? - tell me what you know on the subject.

Behaviour is mastered by self control and continued self discipline. Even your own thoughts can be mastered by self discipline. The bible says be transformed by the renewing of you mind - think on good things. This is not a cure for sin. It takes a whole lot more than that......

 

[SheldonCooper]

What goes on in the mind affects your behaviour and therefore observing the behaviour gives some clue what goes on in the mind.

Not necessarily. There's a thing called lying. Another term called deception. A person can very well have a homicidal thought yet smile in your face.

Jesus said what is conceived in the heart also affects your behaviour. This "heart" I believe is at the spiritual level.

The fact that you said " I believe " has me to simply ignore this statement. Because you sound like you don't know what you're talking about.

Have you ever heard the spiritual voices that whisper to your soul and influence you at the spiritual level? There is no God - it silenty whispers to you.

Have you ever heard this voice Sheldon?- I have !

Yes, actually I have. The voice tells me " They have Me all wrong. Give them Hell. "

"Do you think you can fix the problem with mankind? - surely you have noticed there is a problem?

Yes and Yes. Religion is the problem. Eradicate religion and that would fix 98% of mankind's problems.

- Do you not know there is a poisonous snake venom running through your veins and you will die - would you like me to move aside?

I discern this as a spiritual utterance to which I say no I didn't know. However, a dragon does dwell inside me.

do you know what the problem actually is and where it originated?

Yes and No. Religion is the problem, however I'm not sure of the coordinates in which the first religion was established. Not really my area of expertise or interest to be honest.

can you instruct all mankind to follow your instructions?

Of course.

can you bring order & will they gladly listen and do as you say?

Yes, I can bring order because I myself am orderly however it remains to be seen if " they " would gladly listen and do what I say. I'm not losing sleep over it nor is this a life goal of mine.

can you command death to let it's prisoners go free?

Now, we're getting delusional.

death awaits you !

No one truly dies.

so much that it was something worth dying for - do you have a passion worth dying for? "

No, because no one truly dies.

What is Sin? - tell me what you know on the subject.

Sin is a word that describes an action that is in violation of a particular manifesto, law, or statute. Which means sin is relative. You can see the quarrels about this when the Gentiles were grafted into the church. Paul had a field day with that situation. Sin then, is not a constant variable nor is it a universal truth. Because sin is different depending on whom you ask. For me..

Sin is being ignorant, mediocre and silly. Just to name a few.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

In my professional opinion, Sam91, I think you are going to have a difficult time in college as a mature student.

Why do you say that she'll have a difficult time in college, Sheldon?