Atheism, not Islam is the enemy of Christianity

[rturner76]

JGG......

I am a frog that believes you can best serve Christ by living the 2 commandments he gave us (Christians)

1) Love God with all your heart soul and mind. For a theist, this is can be a very therapeutic thing in terms of laying down your burdens, gaining internal fortitude, insight etc. and is a personal thing not involving others except those that wish to worship
together.

2) Love your neighbor as yourself. If a Christian does this, you should be treated with love and respect regardless of being an atheist, or a frog. I say this is a good template to use when deciding if you are dealing with someone that lives their faith. All the other commands and dogma or whatever is secondary to these 2 commandments.

So I guess some would twist this to say "If I love someone, I should want to see them saved from the hellfire."

What many of us fail to realize is that the Bible talks about heaven and hell and who is in and who is out in some passages. It also talks about infinite mercy and wisdom in other passages. It is not up to me (us) to judge your place in eternity. All we have is today, right now, and I would rather you received a dose of love and understanding from me than judgement and condemnation. This is the true commandment of Christ to "love one another as I have loved you." That statement had to restrictions, no conditions.

So once again the bottom line is that if you are not experiencing love coming from a Christian, they have misunderstood their mission. This stuff is not work it is joy, love is a beautiful thing and it does not frustrate me or make me feel uncomfortable when people don't want to "convert" it's not their time. They will only do it when they see a reason to and IMHO, one would much rather be on the other end of a loving relationship than a working relationship.

If you and I can be open with each other and you can actually feel love coming from me my mission IS accomplished because I believe we are to be the conduit for God's love to the whole world. You as an atheist do not feel love coming directly from God. I understand that. If you feel it coming from me and it is the love I share with Christ, you have shared Christ's love with me. That in itself makes me happy and you don't have to be "one of us" to experience that with me.

Sorry just ramblin at this point but I hope you can find more loving experiences with Christians because it is not saying much for us that you are finding no love in our community when it is our primary purpose to love others as we have been loved by him.

Online is likely not the place.....too many agendas and too many got too much to prove

 

[oi_antz]

I don't believe that rant for one second! It's the rantings of paranoia that look to outside places for Satan and that is the real deception. While we are searching for Satan in agencies and institutions, he is attacking your mind on the inside. We know that there is spiritual wickedness in high places but that is individual's greed. The deception is looking for Satan somewhere else when he is sitting right on your shoulders whispering in your ear. Telling you not to trust, telling you who is evil and who is not but we have the ability to look to the Holy Spirit and the instructions given to us in the New testament of the Bible. We can discern for ourselves where evil lies and I doubt it is in the United Way. there may be misguided people within the organization but the majority of people involved want to make a difference in people's lives and affect a positive change in the world period. All that right wing gun toting anti-environment, anti-catholic stuff is an agenda this Christian does not subscribe to. I believe in personal responsibility and affecting the people around you in a positive way. I don't believe we will advance the mission of Christ and the Disciples by tearing down institution that are by mission statement helpful to society. That is politics. BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE MY FRIENDS. LEAD BY EXAMPLE. BUILD UP DON'T TEAR DOWN. WHAT'S DONE IN DARKNESS WILL COME TO LIGHT!

Hi Robert, while I agree that she made some extreme statements, there also are a few very concise statements which do seem to ring true. Let's see whether I can isolate them and get your agreement:

I see Satan as the epitome of contradiction; Beautiful, scintillating, charismatic, genius, yet evil, corrupt, dishonorable, unscrupulous and arrogant.

To those who even believe he exists, he is the legendary devil with the red epidermis and forked tail, a grotesque gargoyle who commits only foul deeds in this kingdom.
[...]
Satan encourages this fantasy, for it beguiles human beings into believing he is the Super Demon, a miscalculation which renders them vulnerable, receptive to the true Satan and his base designs.

The fact is, people become accustomed to slavery by subtle and indirect means, being forced into a small compromises, which makes the objective of slavery more easily attained; the ultimate banishment of self-determination. Bit by bit, they submit to intimidation until they are cowed by tyranny, and it's just a matter of time until the powerful expand the regions of bondage to include higher taxes, mandatory this and that, surrendering our firearms, yada, yada, yada.

This procedure ignores the Royal Priesthood of every believer. We are all entitled to represent ourselves before God, and this is a very personal matter, and not anyone else's damned business.

Another very destructive strategy, and prevalent in our time, is Christian activism. This is the flagship of Satan's policy which evokes such emotional response from Christians that many are compelled to commit crime, even murder, in the name of their cause.

In the name of this bogus issue people burn legitimate businesses, parade around with signs and assault the privacy and freedom of individuals, threaten medical professionals, even murder. In their intransigent arrogance they usurp the power of God, supposing that He agrees with their evil campaign.

The destruction of freedom is his highest priority!

The rest I would allow to go down with the arrow you fired, but these few comments and particularly the one about Christian activism and freedom is exactly what I meant to show JGG. The rest I pasted in for context. I'm not against the Catholic church either, despite the greatest conspiracy theories. From my first hand experience I have witnessed great integrity and faith in its members.

 

[rturner76]

I pretty much agree with the points you highlighted. Also I believe there is spiritual wikedness in high places which can include the Church including the Catholic Church. I'm just a big believer in personal responsibility and deception and trickery is the main tool of the devil. I also see the devil as the part of ourselves that is tied to our flesh desires, not so much a guy with a pitchfork.

 

[oi_antz]

I pretty much agree with the points you highlighted. Also I believe there is spiritual wikedness in high places which can include the Church including the Catholic Church. I'm just a big believer in personal responsibility and deception and trickery is the main tool of the devil. I also see the devil as the part of ourselves that is tied to our flesh desires, not so much a guy with a pitchfork.

It's a complicated topic for sure. We can't go blaming Satan for all the sin in the world, that's just naive and shirking responsibility. The beast will rise through his orchestration of powers in high places, which we are witnessing already with globalization and the gradual decline of freedom (smoking for instance!) and more iron-fist dictatorship. Linsue55 did describe the nature of his attack very well in so far as even though they think they are doing good things, they are working directly in his ploy. Jesus has a ploy too it must be said, and his technique is not to smack the law on us with an iron fist but to change our heart so we come to love the law in freedom.

Matthew 24
“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

This goes hand-in-hand with the question that mystifies the faithless - "if Jesus walked past you in the street, how would you know it is Him?" - My answer? "I would know. Read John 21".

 

[oi_antz]

Hi JGG, this came through on my daily devotional:

Life Application Daily Devotion
September 20, 2011

Don't just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good. Love each other with genuine affection,* and take delight in honoring each other.
Romans 12:9-10, NLT

Most of us have learned how to pretend to love others--how to speak kindly, avoid hurting their feelings, and appear to take an interest in them. We may even be skilled in pretending to feel moved with compassion when we hear of others' needs, or to become indignant when we learn of injustice. But God calls us to real and sincere love that goes far beyond pretense and politeness. Sincere love requires concentration and effort. It means helping others become better people. It demands our time, money, and personal involvement. No individual has the capacity to express love to a whole community, but the body of Christ in your town does.

Look for people who need your love, and look for ways you and your fellow believers can love your community for Christ.

I think this is relevant to what you were asking, looking for modern Christianity that promotes love rather than hate. How many daily devotionals do you monitor? This one from Tyndale House Publishers is one I highly recommend. They take a verse from the New Living Translation each day and expand it, you might find a positive Christian light if you were to subscribe to that feed.

New Living Translation™: Devotional Sign-Up

 

[JGG]

What do you think Jesus is talking about when He speaks of "hot", "cold" and "lukewarm"?

Do you not think He is speaking about the duality you are observing? Those who are spiritually rich, poor or content to be poor?

Perhaps. However, I notice that the Christians I was quoting from before (who I believe we assume are "cold") use the same quote to describe themselves as True Christians.

Using your orange vs blue frogs analogy below, I cannot agree that you don't recognize the difference between orange frogs and blue frogs. It is just as simple when observing Christianity. You can observe that there are spiritually rich Christians and spiritually poor Christians. Even you are capable of that, though you have in the past put up quite a fight to acknowledge it.

Well, I'm not sure what the actual difference is, or why some frogs are blue, and some are orange. However, I do know that they are all frogs.

As long as you have an axe to grind you will only see what you are looking for.

Well that is possible, maybe probable. However, I've already described how I went looking for Christians speaking positively of atheists as people. Just someone who recognizes that we're not really that different. There's no market for that in our society. You may be pleased to note that I found such Christians in another society. However, the point is that I'm talking about Modern Western Christianity.

Go round different churches and listen to what they say, with every church and every pastor there is a different message. Just lurk and listen, you may just be surprised that you can hear a positive message if you happen to be in the right place at the time it is spoken. For instance just two weeks ago I went to a Catholic church and the preacher was talking about how there are 'no outsiders'. He used the story of the Samaritan woman who convinced Jesus to heal her daughter by reminding Him that dogs eat the crumbs under the table. With a sermon like that, there is clearly a positive and negative light to observe.

Perhaps. But, I've already watched my best friend's father dance on his grave because he was gay. My own grandfather call my wife a harlot on her wedding day because she's Jewish. And I was assaulted for being a pro-choice atheist visiting his friends' newborn twins. My own sisters have refused to have contact with me in almost a decade, even skipping our mother's funeral, simply because I'm not the right type of Christian (as far as they know). I've seen how it works out, I'm not particularly excited to expose myself to it again.

Until you take the initiative to hunt down the positive teachers, please don't complain to me about what the media tells you because it is a plain manipulator of the masses with a very clear antichrist agenda.

As you can see, it's not simply the media that tells me this. I have experienced this first hand. However, once upon a time I did hunt down a new church. When I first started college, right after I was thrown out of my former church I went looking for another. The first one had a sermon about "the gay agenda." The next church had a sermon about the evils of "evolutionism" and essentially atheists. In another church I was asked if I was gay before they allowed me to enter (didn't want any of those folk in their church). Many in between simply had parishoners who demonstrated what I'm expressing to you.

It was my failed hunt for positive teachers that caused me to observe this.

 

[JGG]

Hi JGG, this came through on my daily devotional:

I think this is relevant to what you were asking, looking for modern Christianity that promotes love rather than hate. How many daily devotionals do you monitor? This one from Tyndale House Publishers is one I highly recommend. They take a verse from the New Living Translation each day and expand it, you might find a positive Christian light if you were to subscribe to that feed.

New Living Translation™: Devotional Sign-Up

Well, yeah. Okay. But isn't this just paraphrasing what the passage just said? I agree with it to be sure, I just don't really see how it is indicative of modern Christianity, except that it is a bible passage in modern parlance.

I don't mean to be picky, I was just hoping for something that suggests that there are substantial numbers of Christians who are willing to take time to read about this idea, rather than have it sent to their email inbox.

Like I said, I thought I found such a book, but apparently nobody purchased it, whereas "Atheists are the Horrible, Satanic Enemies of Society (and Secretly Want to Kill Your Dog), vol. 18" is selling fairly well.

I don't want to be misunderstood here, I'm sure there's plenty of positive things in Christianity for Christians. I would imagine that would be self-evident, people (not me so much) stay within it for a reason. I'm just saying, as it stands, and from where I'm watching from, it tends not to be so positive, and probably more than a little negative toward those who are not Christians. In this case, specifically atheists.

 

[oi_antz]

Perhaps. However, I notice that the Christians I was quoting from before (who I believe we assume are "cold") use the same quote to describe themselves as True Christians.

Well, I'm not sure what the actual difference is, or why some frogs are blue, and some are orange. However, I do know that they are all frogs.

Well that is possible, maybe probable. However, I've already described how I went looking for Christians speaking positively of atheists as people. Just someone who recognizes that we're not really that different. There's no market for that in our society. You may be pleased to note that I found such Christians in another society. However, the point is that I'm talking about Modern Western Christianity.

Perhaps. But, I've already watched my best friend's father dance on his grave because he was gay. My own grandfather call my wife a harlot on her wedding day because she's Jewish. And I was assaulted for being a pro-choice atheist visiting his friends' newborn twins. My own sisters have refused to have contact with me in almost a decade, even skipping our mother's funeral, simply because I'm not the right type of Christian (as far as they know). I've seen how it works out, I'm not particularly excited to expose myself to it again.

As you can see, it's not simply the media that tells me this. I have experienced this first hand. However, once upon a time I did hunt down a new church. When I first started college, right after I was thrown out of my former church I went looking for another. The first one had a sermon about "the gay agenda." The next church had a sermon about the evils of "evolutionism" and essentially atheists. In another church I was asked if I was gay before they allowed me to enter (didn't want any of those folk in their church). Many in between simply had parishoners who demonstrated what I'm expressing to you.

It was my failed hunt for positive teachers that caused me to observe this.

Wow I got to tell you that we seem to live in two different worlds. I'm not sure where to go with this, how about entertaining the idea Robert introduced to you a few pages back: what sort of Christian would you be? Would you be one to dance on your gay son's grave? Would you assault misbelievers? I know it's difficult for you to imagine believing all the ideas that Christians believe, but just by putting that aside and presuming that God revealed it to you in a way that made sense - what do you think your attitude would be if a gay person was to walk in the door of your church? Or if an atheist was to express their disgust at your religion?

I know it might be difficult to really imagine this happening, but I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at here. It's the same thing I think I have said to you before, that religious extremist's are inherently extremist's, and religion is their crutch. Religion therefore is only a conduit for the type of behavior that is a manifestation of their true nature. Immature parents will raise immature children, or as Jesus said "a good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit".

I want you to think about that, presuming that you are the tree He is speaking of. How likely do you think it is that your behavior would become so conceited and hateful as those you have been hurt by, simply from having a personal encounter with God? Since it's a loaded question I'd better top it off. What I'm saying is that some people aren't learning from God at all, but they are learning bad tricks from bad teachers, and those bad teachers have learned bad tricks from other bad teachers, so there's a whole community of bad teachers who are producing bad fruit.

Notice this is consistent with what Jesus says "many are called but few are chosen". There's a solemn warning in that verse which the bad teachers wouldn't dare preach lest they show the narrow path for how difficult it really is, and thus lose the membership of those who aren't committed enough to "overcome" the sin in their life.

I really feel that you would benefit from a more open minded community than the ones you have encountered. I remember a lecturer of mine who came from the USA, I hung off her every word. I wish I paid more attention to geography, since that seems quite important to understanding her culture. I hope you do manage to find a source of good Christian inspiration, there must be pockets of it, even if it isn't your mainstream churches. Not sure if you remember the movie Religulous that well, there was a trucker's chapel where Bill thanked them for "being Christ like and not just Christian". That's quite a compliment to receive from an atheist.

 

[oi_antz]

Well, yeah. Okay. But isn't this just paraphrasing what the passage just said? I agree with it to be sure, I just don't really see how it is indicative of modern Christianity, except that it is a bible passage in modern parlance.

I don't mean to be picky, I was just hoping for something that suggests that there are substantial numbers of Christians who are willing to take time to read about this idea, rather than have it sent to their email inbox.

Like I said, I thought I found such a book, but apparently nobody purchased it, whereas "Atheists are the Horrible, Satanic Enemies of Society (and Secretly Want to Kill Your Dog), vol. 18" is selling fairly well.

I don't want to be misunderstood here, I'm sure there's plenty of positive things in Christianity for Christians. I would imagine that would be self-evident, people (not me so much) stay within it for a reason. I'm just saying, as it stands, and from where I'm watching from, it tends not to be so positive, and probably more than a little negative toward those who are not Christians. In this case, specifically atheists.

That's a fair comment to make, I would not disagree with that. But the message of Christ need not be negative, in fact those who have been entrusted with the good news know full well the destruction that await those who "cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin" (Matthew 18:6). Notice the imperative word here is "trust". I am glad that pinkputter was able to pick herself up and battle on, for she has certainly learned a good lesson from your observation.

 

[JGG]

Wow I got to tell you that we seem to live in two different worlds. I'm not sure where to go with this, how about entertaining the idea Robert introduced to you a few pages back: what sort of Christian would you be? Would you be one to dance on your gay son's grave? Would you assault misbelievers? I know it's difficult for you to imagine believing all the ideas that Christians believe, but just by putting that aside and presuming that God revealed it to you in a way that made sense - what do you think your attitude would be if a gay person was to walk in the door of your church? Or if an atheist was to express their disgust at your religion?

Well, to the point: It's because I'm the type of person I am that I gave up on congregations, preachers and parishoners. I got tired of people telling me "...because this is what we believe, and you have to believe it too."

I know it might be difficult to really imagine this happening, but I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at here. It's the same thing I think I have said to you before, that religious extremist's are inherently extremist's, and religion is their crutch. Religion therefore is only a conduit for the type of behavior that is a manifestation of their true nature. Immature parents will raise immature children, or as Jesus said "a good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit".

Yeah, but you see the parents as the tree. I see Today's Christianity as the tree, and I've seen the fruit it produces.

I really feel that you would benefit from a more open minded community than the ones you have encountered. I remember a lecturer of mine who came from the USA, I hung off her every word. I wish I paid more attention to geography, since that seems quite important to understanding her culture. I hope you do manage to find a source of good Christian inspiration, there must be pockets of it, even if it isn't your mainstream churches.

I have actually. However, I would attribute that positivity more to that person's culture, than belief. Also, based on what we've talked about, I'm sure she would be labeled a CINO.

Not sure if you remember the movie Religulous that well, there was a trucker's chapel where Bill thanked them for "being Christ like and not just Christian". That's quite a compliment to receive from an atheist.

Bill Maher said that? Doesn't sound like something he'd say.

I am glad that pinkputter was able to pick herself up and battle on, for she has certainly learned a good lesson from your observation.

What makes you think she's learned a lesson?

 

[oi_antz]

Well, to the point: It's because I'm the type of person I am that I gave up on congregations, preachers and parishoners. I got tired of people telling me "...because this is what we believe, and you have to believe it too."

There must be a way to define belief based upon what God shows us and distinguish it from belief based on what a human tells us. I think what you're describing here is a group of people who like to discuss their thoughts and agree with each other's thoughts, possibly by thinking about what the bible says, but generally it is a practice of discussion and learning. I don't see anything wrong with that, as the say two heads are better than one. But how to make that connection so an atheist can get involved in a Christian discussion and contribute and learn as Christians do, it requires a large foundation of understanding in the first place. Since you've become so atheist for no less than good reasons, I do feel it will take a special commitment from you if ever you were to ask God to "heal" your heart (which in non-Christian lingo means to reveal the truth to you in a manner that makes sense). Once this has happened then you will be converted like I was on March 22 2010, and instantly you'll be talking in support of Christianity. Until that happens, it must be said that what Robert thanked you for was letting your guard down and letting us see who you truly are. I can see you are being honest and not trying to evade the issue, yet you do have some serious issues to work through.

Yeah, but you see the parents as the tree. I see Today's Christianity as the tree, and I've seen the fruit it produces.

That's only one type of tree you have seen though. What about the tree which produces good fruit? Are you saying that blue frogs and orange frogs come from the same tree? That's not how I understand it.

I have actually. However, I would attribute that positivity more to that person's culture, than belief. Also, based on what we've talked about, I'm sure she would be labeled a CINO.

Actually I don't think she was Christian at all.

Bill Maher said that? Doesn't sound like something he'd say.

He tore them to pieces, they stood their ground in faith admitting they couldn't answer his questions, he invited them to pray for him and then thanked them for being Christ like and not just Christian, then quipped "hey! who stole my wallet?"

What makes you think she's learned a lesson?

I notice she is developing a more pleasant manner of speaking and learning when to shake the dust off her feet instead of being dragged into the mud. It does take time to grow, but I see her true colors and I have faith that she will blossom into a beautiful witness of the Lord.

 

[JGG]

There must be a way to define belief based upon what God shows us and distinguish it from belief based on what a human tells us.

...and yet, we really can't, can we?

I think what you're describing here is a group of people who like to discuss their thoughts and agree with each other's thoughts, possibly by thinking about what the bible says, but generally it is a practice of discussion and learning. I don't see anything wrong with that, as the say two heads are better than one. But how to make that connection so an atheist can get involved in a Christian discussion and contribute and learn as Christians do, it requires a large foundation of understanding in the first place. Since you've become so atheist for no less than good reasons, I do feel it will take a special commitment from you if ever you were to ask God to "heal" your heart (which in non-Christian lingo means to reveal the truth to you in a manner that makes sense). Once this has happened then you will be converted like I was on March 22 2010, and instantly you'll be talking in support of Christianity. Until that happens, it must be said that what Robert thanked you for was letting your guard down and letting us see who you truly are. I can see you are being honest and not trying to evade the issue, yet you do have some serious issues to work through.

So you assume. But you have to understand, for years I was lost, miserable, desperate. Then, I let go of all of my God concepts and frankly, I'm far more content now.

That's only one type of tree you have seen though. What about the tree which produces good fruit? Are you saying that blue frogs and orange frogs come from the same tree? That's not how I understand it.

No, but I don't think it's Christianity that makes people good. I think it's something else. The evidence for this is that there are horrible Christians, and wonderful non-Christians.

Actually I don't think she was Christian at all.

Interesting. Why's that? Afterall, right now you don't know anything about her.

I notice she is developing a more pleasant manner of speaking and learning when to shake the dust off her feet instead of being dragged into the mud. It does take time to grow, but I see her true colors and I have faith that she will blossom into a beautiful witness of the Lord.

Sorry, I disagree. Just keep watching...

 

[razeontherock]

I've already watched my best friend's father dance on his grave because he was gay. My own grandfather call my wife a harlot on her wedding day because she's Jewish. And I was assaulted for being a pro-choice atheist visiting his friends' newborn twins. My own sisters have refused to have contact with me in almost a decade, even skipping our mother's funeral, simply because I'm not the right type of Christian

Ouch! This sure explains a lot.

You do need to recognize that none of this has anything to do with Christianity. (People may use that as an excuse for such poor behavior, but Jesus addressed that thoroughly)

 

[oi_antz]

...and yet, we really can't, can we?

Speak for yourself. As for me I know when God is telling me something.

So you assume. But you have to understand, for years I was lost, miserable, desperate. Then, I let go of all of my God concepts and frankly, I'm far more content now.

I don't mind that at all, I too have done that but in the end I found it was quite literally a dead end road.

No, but I don't think it's Christianity that makes people good. I think it's something else. The evidence for this is that there are horrible Christians, and wonderful non-Christians.

Fair statement. But isn't "being good" what Jesus taught? So doesn't this make you think that what Jesus taught is not necessarily the same "Christianity" that you are observing? One thing I'd like to draw your attention to is His condemnation of the hypocritical Pharisee's. How much do you think He would condemn the hypocritical Christians of today? Of course someone who claims to be Christian can polish the outside of the cup yet be foul inside. Anyone can see through that disguise.

Interesting. Why's that? Afterall, right now you don't know anything about her.

That's true. There is only one thing I remember that makes me think she wasn't Christian. She asked me in front of the class one day "what is a family". I answered "a husband and wife with children". She seemed disappointed.

Sorry, I disagree. Just keep watching...

Now it is you who sounds like a hypocrite. Why don't you show a little love for our sister? You're willing to set a trap for her, but not willing to feed her so she can grow?

 

[JGG]

Fair statement. But isn't "being good" what Jesus taught? So doesn't this make you think that what Jesus taught is not necessarily the same "Christianity" that you are observing? One thing I'd like to draw your attention to is His condemnation of the hypocritical Pharisee's. How much do you think He would condemn the hypocritical Christians of today? Of course someone who claims to be Christian can polish the outside of the cup yet be foul inside. Anyone can see through that disguise.

Yeah. Agreed. That's pretty much what I was saying before.

That's true. There is only one thing I remember that makes me think she wasn't Christian. She asked me in front of the class one day "what is a family". I answered "a husband and wife with children". She seemed disappointed.

Firstly, that's a pretty small thing to base such a position on. She "seemed" disappointed, so she's not a Christian? That's a pretty snap decision.

Secondly, I have to agree with her apparent disappointment. I have been in your definition of a family for only about 20 months of my entire life. My father died while my mother was pregnant with me. My sisters disowned me before I was 20, and stopped talking to me completely before I was 25. My mother passed away not long after. And less than two years after we had our son, my wife passed away.

Based on the "traditional" view of family, I could only say I don't have one, and really never had. And yet, I clearly do have a family.

Now it is you who sounds like a hypocrite.

How am I a hypocrite? This is what I've been saying all along. If you recall she's my great example of what Modern Western Christianity is all about. If we could change it by simply saying: "Hey stop doing that!" We likely wouldn't be having a discussion.

I'm betting she received some warnings, and needs to lie low for a bit.

Why don't you show a little love for our sister? You're willing to set a trap for her, but not willing to feed her so she can grow?

Well, let's be honest, she set her own trap. If she wants to grow, then I'm sure at some point, somewhere around the board we'll have a discussion about it. However, if she wants to go ahead and tell me again how horrible I am for not believing in her God, then I imagine we'll have that discussion instead.

 

[oi_antz]

Yeah. Agreed. That's pretty much what I was saying before.

Not sure how this is useful but I'm glad we agree.

Firstly, that's a pretty small thing to base such a position on. She "seemed" disappointed, so she's not a Christian? That's a pretty snap decision.

There was another incident I remember, her name came in passing conversation when I was speaking to a Christian (I was believing against Jesus at the time), this Christian lady was disappointed when I said "she is so enlightened". It was one of those situations you know when a Christian looks down on a non-Christian. Maybe that is where I got the impression that she wasn't Christian. Maybe she is, and you are right to say I am wrong to judge.

Secondly, I have to agree with her apparent disappointment. I have been in your definition of a family for only about 20 months of my entire life. My father died while my mother was pregnant with me. My sisters disowned me before I was 20, and stopped talking to me completely before I was 25. My mother passed away not long after. And less than two years after we had our son, my wife passed away.

Based on the "traditional" view of family, I could only say I don't have one, and really never had. And yet, I clearly do have a family.

Yes I too have reflected a lot on my understanding of what family is. I think if I could be asked that question again I would have to say it is a collection of people bonded by love or heritage. That would cover situations of children adopted by same-sex partners and it would cover situations like yours where you have family by bloodline.

How am I a hypocrite? This is what I've been saying all along. If you recall she's my great example of what Modern Western Christianity is all about. If we could change it by simply saying: "Hey stop doing that!" We likely wouldn't be having a discussion.

No it takes a bit more than just "stop doing that", it requires a conscious effort on her part to behave differently. Even after two long PM's to her, she PM'd me asking about my opinion on what happened to her on another thread. This is what growth is. You don't see a bud one second and a flower the next. It takes time and the right conditions to grow. You and I are capable of giving her the right conditions to grow, and in fact that is what Jesus instructed Peter when He said "feed my sheep". If you love the Lord, you will feed His sheep.

I'm betting she received some warnings, and needs to lie low for a bit.

I don't think that is what happened, I think she has genuinely regretted the words she said and from self-reflection has matured. I'd like to see that it continues, maybe it would be nice for you to address her one day just to clear the air. I'm sure she is wise enough to address you with the respect you deserve.

Well, let's be honest, she set her own trap. If she wants to grow, then I'm sure at some point, somewhere around the board we'll have a discussion about it. However, if she wants to go ahead and tell me again how horrible I am for not believing in her God, then I imagine we'll have that discussion instead.

There, what did I bother saying it for. I have to say JGG, your maturity puts a lot of Christians to shame. If only we were able to harness that maturity to help certain Christians behave more Christ-like then the world would definitely be a better place. Do you have any ideas how we can do that? A book is a good idea, maybe you Robert and I could get serious about that and put our heads together. Rather than presenting problems we should be presenting solutions.

What do you really think is an effective way to improve Christian attitudes toward atheists?

 

[rturner76]

Secondly, I have to agree with her apparent disappointment. I have been in your definition of a family for only about 20 months of my entire life. My father died while my mother was pregnant with me. My sisters disowned me before I was 20, and stopped talking to me completely before I was 25. My mother passed away not long after. And less than two years after we had our son, my wife passed away.

Based on the "traditional" view of family, I could only say I don't have one, and really never had. And yet, I clearly do have a family.

It makes a lot of sense why you are an Atheist my friend. I would be pretty upset with God myself and the only way to make peace with something like this and some other statements I've seen is to just cut the ties and say there can't be any rhyme or reason to this nonsense. How could this be part of a plan? It would be hard not to take it personal. It would seem to be a more intelligent conclusion to believe God doesn't exist than he did exist and could be so cruel.
I pray God gives you a long life with your son

 

[timatter]

"is atheism, not Islam the enemy of Christianity?" Many think so, and treat us like terrorists. "No negotiating with them until they denounce their terrorism/atheism." The second half of last Saturday's FFRF's FreeThought radio podcast (#282) had the story of a Greek Orthodox monk of 19 years who lost his faith and asked to be released from his vows and defrocked. They had the police come, handcuff him and had him involuntarily committed to a psychiatric ward. He was released after several days and was homeless. He lived in a shelter for a couple of months. When he tried to get his belongings back from the monistary but most of them had been given away, and his laptop hard drive was broken. This was not some fundamentalist doing this to him. It was the clergy. I often hear Christians saying about "the world" persecuting them. Try being a Christian and telling your fellow Christians you no longer believe it. You will be told "Then you never really were a Christian", "You just don't want to be accountable to anybody", "You have some sin in your life that you don't want to give up", "Somebody in the church must have hurt you", "you really do believe in God but you are denying it" and a few others, most with Bible verses proving they are right. The reasons you give, aren't the real reasons. The problem can't be Christianity, it must be one of the above.

 

[SecretSunlight]

There is a really nice site that explains a little about how we need not struggle. How we let God do for us what we can not do.
Just go to this site...
What is MY part and what is Gods part?
Just go to BodySoulMind.Yolasite.com

Remember Jesus Loves you. He really really does. He is coming soon. He has a sweet place in heaven for you.


Remember Jesus Loves you. He really really does. He is coming soon. He has a sweet place in heaven for you.

 

[oi_antz]

Hi JGG,

Does the mission statement of Christian organisations, the likes of World Vision and Samaritan's purse qualify as proof of the love of Christ toward non-believers?

https://www.samaritanspurse.com.au/mission-and-faith-statement/
Samaritan’s Purse is a non-profit, Christian organisation providing emergency relief and development assistance to suffering people around the world. Samaritan’s Purse is meeting the physical needs of victims of war, poverty, natural disaster, disease and famine with the aim of demonstrating God’s love and sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ. The aid and assistance are given without regard to the race, creed, gender, religion, or ethnicity of the beneficiaries.

https://worldvision.org.nz/aboutwvnz/common_questions.aspx
Do you try and convert the people you are working with in development projects?
World Vision affirms and defends the right of all Christians and faith-based organisations, including our own staff and World Vision itself, to witness through their lives, words and deeds.

Witness is not, however, the same thing as proselytism. World Vision defines proselytism as the use of aid as an inducement or source of coercion for religious conversion. World Vision believes that nobody should be coerced or manipulated into converting to Christianity; accepting Christ must be a free decision based on consideration and judgment. World Vision condemns proselytism and does not tolerate its practice by staff.

Christian witness is an essential and integral part of the mission of World Vision. Christian witness should never involve the use of pressure or inducement but equally it is unethical and inappropriate to hide that Christian teaching is the underlying motive for all of World Vision’s work

See if this video doesn't touch your heart:

OCC Montage 2011 - YouTube

I predict you will say that these organisations don't represent "modern Western Christianity" which is a fair statement. It is fair to say though that they do represent "modern Christianity", and "the spirit of Christ".