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Atheism as a Faith: The (Hopefully) Final Debate

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by leftrightleftrightleft, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. hikersong

    hikersong Walkin' and Singin'

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    :D
     
  2. hikersong

    hikersong Walkin' and Singin'

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    I don't know. I've seen some pretty attractive gorillas. :cool:
     
  3. razeontherock

    razeontherock Well-Known Member

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    I think Greg may have addressed this already, but that's an absurd strawman you just knocked over.
     
  4. razeontherock

    razeontherock Well-Known Member

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    I fail to see how you can fail to see that. What does it mean that we were "made in His image, and in His likeness?"
     
  5. razeontherock

    razeontherock Well-Known Member

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    According to your definition, that time = change this must be true. that's also why i reject that definition, even though it's very comprehensible, and seems sensible to boot. Following that model, you never have a beginning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  6. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves.

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    :lost:
    I have no idea what it means. You are asking the wrong person. But I think, that all too anthropomorphic conceptions of God do not represent the pinnacle of theology. YMMV
     
  7. Greg1234

    Greg1234 In the beginning was El

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    It's to prevent one from saying that man was created as man, so Darwinism can expand and take over.
     
  8. SithDoughnut

    SithDoughnut The Agnostic, Ignostic, Apatheistic Atheist

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    I take it you haven't been on the Physical Sciences board much.
     
  9. razeontherock

    razeontherock Well-Known Member

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    Sith, that people will become defensive and lose their good judgment is nothing new.
     
  10. dewaddict84

    dewaddict84 meh

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    I see them as synonyms. What more is there to the meaning of something other then it's cause? What more to purpose than effect? If there is none, then the terms are the same. From the other discussions going on here I've picked up that "meaning" and "purpose" are suppoed to be philosophical thing that somehow originate from the act of thinking about them. This is like that old philosophy question: If a tree falls in a forest, and nobody hears, does it still make a sound?

    In short, Yes.


    Yep. So far, for as mad as it seems, mutually assured destruction has keep all the great and super powers from declaring war at each other. It was really scary, but the USA and USSR didn't duke it out. Conventional warfare is dead. It's kinda sad that heavy weights like the USA decide to kick people around in the desert, but we do what we can.


    Hmmmm, I guess that's kinda near the mark. But not feeling depressed about it IS the same as not finding it depressing. That's, you know, acceptance. But yeah, death isn't a good thing.

    I'm really not a pantheist. I don't think nature thinks.

    Well, fear is a very healthy attribute. But we're living, we're part of life. Life is self-perpetuating, it survives. We're hardwired to try to survive. If we weren't, I don't think the species would have gotten this far.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
  11. Glass*Soul

    Glass*Soul Senior Veteran

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    Well, the three examples you gave go back to the actions of sentient beings, so it makes sense to ask why as there are motives and reasoning (one hopes :) ) involved. As to the origins of the universe, beginning one's questioning by asking why it exists begs the question, as it already implies that there was an intelligence behind it. It strikes me as more logical to ask how it came to be, and if the one's research leads to the realization that there was an intelligence being behind it, then one would be justified in asking why.

    Well, I don't half blame you. I was struggling for words. Let me try again.

    I think your comments on the differences between how an atheist sees meaning as being something which has its origins within the human experience and how a person who adheres to a religious Faith tends to see meaning as something that exists independently of the human experience are coming very close to answering the OP.

    This is one very good reason why atheism is not a Faith.

    At the same time, using a different definition of faith, an atheist does make a certain commitment to his/her philosophy. We're not engaging in a Pascal's Wager relationship with the Faith(s) with which we rub shoulders (for me the Christian Faith). We are convinced enough to live according to our conclusions.

    My concern in this whole conversation (sparse though my contribution has been) is that there are those who wish to pin the label of Faith on atheism in the same way one pins it on Christianity in hopes that doing so will somehow minimize our position, call our integrity into question or take the wind out of our rhetoric. I have seen some, in their eagerness to do this, applying one meaning of the word to their own experience and another to the atheists experiences as if this has accomplished something, when doing so is simply a logical fallacy.

    The most common example I've seen used is the concept of having faith that if one sits in a chair it will hold one's weight. Unless this is Chairism and one hopes to obtain tax exempt status for sitting, this is not a Faith. That is how I treat atheism. If I "sit down on it" I expect it to hold my weight. If it proves not to, I will find something else to rely upon for my philosophical purposes.

    I am intrigued. How is it, from the Christian perspective, that angst itself changes the state of things?
     
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