At least 3 children and 3 adults killed in Nashville private Christian elementary school shooting; shooter killed by police

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LesSme

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You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. ' But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven
The time for praying for Hale is past. Pray for the victims and their families.
 
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public hermit

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How can we be held accountable for other people's actions

You ask that as if God can't know how we are interrelated and make judgments accordingly. I'm not saying you or I pulled the trigger, Hale did. But no one functions in a vacuum wholly unrelated to the context in which they act. We are all part of that context. The Christian notion of a body functioning as one is intended to be a healthy version of a body disfunctioning as one, which is more often the reality. Humanity is a body more often than not disfunctioning as one. This is more clearly seen now than it used to be, but it has always been the case on some level.

My point is we need to rid ourselves of the tendency to view these events, or any event, in strictly individualistic terms. The fact that numerous individuals have committed horrendous acts with guns cannot be reduced to details about those individuals. And certainly, to condemn (eternally) an individual for what is surely a societal sickness is absurd.
 
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Tinker Grey

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I’m sure he did. But if he warned about causing little children to stumble imagine how he feels about someone who murders them———. Mat 18:6 - “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea
Rejoicing over someone God loved burning in Hell is risky.

I used to tell me homegroup that God weeps over every soul in Hell.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I could always just throw up my hands and say there's nothing we can do.

That's what Rep. Tim Burchett (TN-Knoxville) says:

Why Tenn. Republican Tim Burchett says Congress would only 'mess things up' after school shooting

He equates the futility of stopping school shooters to his father's experience fighting the Japanese in WW II:

"if somebody wants to take you out and doesn't mind losing their life, there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do about it,"

Some other versions of that story:

Tennessee Republican responds to school shooting: ‘We’re not gonna fix it’

Republican Honestly States GOP Plan for School Shootings: 'We're Not Going to Fix It'

GOP Rep Shrugs Off Nashville Shooting: ‘We Homeschool’ Our Daughter

and for those who only read Fox:

Tennessee Rep. Tim Burchett says revival, not Congress, is needed after Nashville school shooting
 
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BPPLEE

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Rejoicing over someone God loved burning in Hell is risky.

I used to tell me homegroup that God weeps over every soul in Hell.
You’ve got me confused with someone else. I wasn’t rejoicing, just pointing out you can fall out of favor with God. Everyone will be accountable.
 
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RDKirk

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I agree there are problems with a psychiatric test for firearm ownership. It is just not as simple as we might prefer it to be. Countless numbers of people are depressed, angry, prone to rage, have been bullied - you name it - and yet they manage to navigate life without picking up a gun and killing people. Psychological tests and assessments can identify these features, but they don't identify who will act in a heinous fashion and who never will. It boils down to clinical judgment...best professional opinion based upon the available information. Or, an educated guess if you will.

In the United States, therapists have a duty to warn if a patient threatens another person or persons. There is no duty to warn about someone who is depressed, prone to rage, a bullying victim, etc., and who also owns a gun but verbalizes no threat. Duty to warn precedent may be found here: Tarasoff vs. Regents of the University of California.

A therapist has no obligation to report someone they find creepy and scary. But sit in their chair and calmly say you are going to kill someone and they are going to pick up the phone. Therapy consumers know this as it's also considered to be ethical practice as part of Informed Consent to explain to therapy consumers the limits of confidentiality. They have probably been informed in the first session or in a written document they sign that there is no confidentiality related to suicidal intention, child abuse, or threats or plans to harm someone. Some states add elder abuse as a legal reporting requirement as well.
This reminds me, tangentially to the discussion, of the situation in the military.

A soldier does not have a right to confidentiality with his military lawyer or doctor. The military lawyer or doctor is obligated to report findings to the commander about a solider that are illegal or prejudicial to the commander's mission.

The only person in uniform with whom a troop has absolute confidentiality is a chaplain. I'm sure this derives from the fact that Catholic chaplains necessarily have absolute confidentiality with the confessions of their own parishioners, but this absolute right of confidentiality has been legally spread across the board for all chaplains and for anyone (religious or not) who confides in them. It's been through the courts several times (and I knew one feisty chaplain rabbi who'd taken it through the courts a couple of times himself).

I found this useful in my own career. There were a couple of times I thought subordinates were on thin ice of a nature that I believed they needed help rather than prosecution. I made them appointments to see our unit chaplain, and directed them to attend. Just like a doctor or lawyer, a military supervisor is also obligated to report knowledge or suspicion of wrongdoing (we're even required to read a troop his Fifth Amendment rights, if it appears they're about to tell us something incriminating). That's the point I might stop a troop and direct him to the chaplain. In one case, the chaplain got the troop to a civilian professional for help, which kept him out of the military system.
 
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BPPLEE

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RDKirk

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One of the more vile things I've read in a while.
All these school shootings are actually suicides...clearly the planning of none of them has involved an escape plan. I think the idea of suicide with the intent of taking as many other lives as possible is certainly vile enough to have no sympathy for such a person.
 
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RDKirk

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I’ve seen photos of teachers in Israel who are armed with rifles
Those teachers in Israel will have had prior military training. Their role as defenders, in Israel's situation of being surrounded by hostile nations, actually is a military role.
 
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Desk trauma

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RDKirk

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Christ prays for those who are murdering him, but you gloat over the notion this person is being tormented in hell? Don't you know that you will be judged by the judgments you make? If you have zero sympathy, why should God have mercy on you? We should weep for all who stray so far from truth and goodness that they carry out horrendous acts. Our hearts should break for all involved. Condemnation and being "glad" that this person is "burning in hell" is not appropriate or Christ-like. Maybe you had a moment, and said that without thinking, but that way of seeing things should be rejected with repentance.
I'm going to push back on the way you said that.

God does call upon Christians to forgive others in the way God has forgiven us. It's one of Jesus' most strict commandments that He gave in the harshest terms possible.

But God does not forgive the unrepentant, nor did Jesus command us to forgive the unrepentant. And I think you use the word "sympathy" too casually. Sympathy involves feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune. I can't regard Audrey Hale with real pity and sorrow.

For the situation, the fact that sin has caused lives to be lost, yes, I have sorrow over that. But for Hale herself and whatever rationale she thought she had to commit murder...not so much.
 
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Tinker Grey

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All these school shootings are actually suicides...clearly the planning of none of them has involved an escape plan. I think the idea of suicide with the intent of taking as many other lives as possible is certainly vile enough to have no sympathy for such a person.
I've dealt with family members with mental health issues. It's a hard slog. The idea that when I am no longer capable of providing help that if my daughter should not be able to otherwise get that help and something happens that there would be those relishing her burning in Hell angers me.

Who should have the most sympathy? The families of the victims. Next? Classmates. Next? The officers that had to deal with the situation.

But, should a person suffering from mental illness get sympathy? I say yes.
 
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RDKirk

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Rejoicing over someone God loved burning in Hell is risky.

I used to tell me homegroup that God weeps over every soul in Hell.

That may be an obligation that God incurs upon Himself, considering that He created them.
 
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RDKirk

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I've dealt with family members with mental health issues. It's a hard slog. The idea that when I am no longer capable of providing help that if my daughter should not be able to otherwise get that help and something happens that there would be those relishing her burning in Hell angers me.

Who should have the most sympathy? The families of the victims. Next? Classmates. Next? The officers that had to deal with the situation.
Genuine sympathy is not free. A person genuinely sympathizes at a real psychological cost to himself.
But, should a person suffering from mental illness get no sympathy? I say yes.
I don't think you meant to say that in the way you did, given what you'd said just above it.
 
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JosephZ

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I don’t know what Hale claimed wrt God. I would be very surprised if she claimed Christ.
Yet you say you are "glad she’s burning in Hell" without knowing for certain if she knew Christ or not.

You do not know His Word. We are to judge righteously, I.e. not hypocritically. And true followers are to judge all things, because we have the mind of Christ.
Jesus doesn't desire that an evil person burn in Hell for eternity, and He certainly wouldn't rejoice if they went there; so neither should we.
 
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BPPLEE

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Any number of larger price tag things in the federal budget could also go a long way toward protecting schools yet, aid to Ukraine is what gets pointed out. Totes not based on any pre existing objection .
I would point out all foreign aid. We need to rethink our priorities
 
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Michie

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John 3:16
2 Peter 3:9

Did Jesus die for her or not?
I’ll step in and say yes He did. He died for everyone. What people do with that is up to them.
 
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