At least 3 children and 3 adults killed in Nashville private Christian elementary school shooting; shooter killed by police

[LesSme]

She checked her Instagram. She didn't expect a message from The Covenant School shooter.​

At 9:57 a.m., a former middle school basketball teammate of Audrey Hale looked at her phone to find a message from The Covenant School shooter on Instagram.

Patton said she called the Nashville Davidson County Sheriff's Office at 10:13 a.m. to make them aware of the situation and was instructed to call Nashville's non-emergency number.

[the text came only minutes before the shooting, so this probably made no difference, but still bears some consideration.]

[The shooter used the name Aiden]

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Death by cop. The ultimate in selfishness and cowardice. Knew she was going to take innocents with her. Glad she’s burning in hell. Zero sympathy.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

At first I thought this was an attempt at irony. Now I am not so sure. Those who read it as a serious proposition should pause long enough to imagine the kind of place America would be if armed soldiers, machine gun nests and razor wire became a normal sight in every town.

I kind of intended it to be ironic, but not entirely. I guess I just have trouble understanding how Americans accept so many of these attacks on children and go about their normal lives.

And since doing anything about the guns is apparently out of the question, then maybe people need to see razor wire and armed soldiers to shock them out of their complacency.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

You haven't yet seen the body cam footage from the police responding to the Tennessee shooting, have you?

No, but it's clear not every police officer acts the same way when confronted by heavily armed killers. And that's not intended as a criticism of the police either.

If I wanted someone to protect me from people armed to the teeth and determined to assault my location and kill me, I'd choose a soldier over a policeman.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Death by cop. The ultimate in selfishness and cowardice. Knew she was going to take innocents with her. Glad she’s burning in hell. Zero sympathy.

One of the more vile things I've read in a while.

 

[LesSme]

One of the more vile things I've read in a while.

Says so much about you.

News flash, God is perfect in both justice and mercy.

Here is a stellar example of justice perfectly served.

Grow up.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Says so much about you.

News flash, God is perfect in both justice and mercy.

Here is a stellar example of justice perfectly served.

Grow up.

According to your religion, your god loved her. No one deserves eternal torment.

To rejoice in that is evil.

Grow up, yourself.

 

[BPPLEE]

I kind of intended it to be ironic, but not entirely. I guess I just have trouble understanding how Americans accept so many of these attacks on children and go about their normal lives.

And since doing anything about the guns is apparently out of the question, then maybe people need to see razor wire and armed soldiers to shock them out of their complacency.

I’ve seen photos of teachers in Israel who are armed with rifles

 

[ThatRobGuy]

HIPAA protects protected health information from being disclosed so if someone is purchasing a firearm, applying for a job as a police officer or applying for a gun permit their health information is protected and disclosing a problem with depression or bipolar disorder is pretty much voluntary. There is a fine line between the need to restrict certain individuals from owning firearms and the right to privacy. Do you want to be disqualified from a job or from purchasing a firearm because something bad happened to you at one time and you were depressed about it? Even though you are fine now?

In a clinical sense, there's a difference between a person who's temporarily depressed over something like loosing a job or losing a parent, and things like bipolar disorder

 

[LesSme]

According to your religion, your god loved her. No one deserves eternal torment.

To rejoice in that is evil.

Grow up, yourself.

You know zero whereof you speak.

Crack a Bible then get back to me.

Unfortunately for you, unbelievers don’t judge God nor his saints.

Have a nice day.

 

[BPPLEE]

In a clinical sense, there's a difference between a person who's temporarily depressed over something like loosing a job or losing a parent, and things like bipolar disorder

Go to 5 psychiatrists and you’ll get 5 different diagnosis. Like someone stated earlier the provider is going to err on the side of caution if it comes to making a decision on whether someone can own a firearm.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

See here's the thing. Its not that they dont work, there is just not the political will to enact multiple measures. They "will not happen" is not the same as they don't work.

I'd suggest there needs to be a distinction made between "prescriptive" and "preventative"

With regards to "what would work", there are things that would work in terms of preventing if we were starting from scratch, but the same things wouldn't be effective as a curative measure once the cat is already out of the bag.

For instance:
If we were starting from scratch right now (and nobody had any guns at all yet), things like universal background checks, licensing & registration, mental health screening would likely be very effective.

Once the proliferation of guns is already to the level its at in our country, the proposed measures that many democrats offer up (while well-intentioned) are tantamount to trying to buy a fire extinguisher after there's already an out of control blaze at your house...you would've needed to have it when it toaster in the kitchen first caught fire.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It could but as of now it’s not and you didn’t answer the question

We're talking about potential changes, so "that doesn't exist now" isn't relevant to the discussion. If a medical restriction was placed on gun ownership, then part of the legislation would have to create a medical body with access to protected health information in order to satisfy the requirements of HIPAA.

To answer your question, if I've been diagnosed with certain mental disorders (I'll leave it to the experts to decide which ones would be disallowed), then I would be fine with not being able to purchase a gun. I don't see where employment would figure into it though, unless I was applying for a job that required me to carry a gun.

 

[Nithavela]

A couple issues with that.

1 - the number of people in a combat role is actually only a small percentage of the military. There likely wouldn't be enough to have 2 troops per school in this country. There's 70,000 elementary schools and 20,000 high schools in the country. An Air Force engineer who has a non-combat role (and just went through AF basic training) isn't likely to be that much more effective than a civilian who trains a lot with their firearms. The marines would likely be the logical choice for such a role, but there's only 170,000 of them. If we used them all for school patrol, then we wouldn't have them for actual military endeavors.

2 - the fact that guns are causing problems isn't a compelling argument for many people. If you're a person who lives in a bad neighborhood, or in a group that's a target for violence, if the US doesn't have plans to get the guns back from people who shouldn't have them, telling a person who just wants one for self-defense to give up theirs to be a "team player" is going to be a hard sell.

Maybe you could create a new wing of the military: School Force. Just as hardcore as Space Force, only a shorter drive to work.

 

[BPPLEE]

We're talking about potential changes, so "that doesn't exist now" isn't relevant to the discussion. If a medical restriction was placed on gun ownership, then part of the legislation would have to create a medical body with access to protected health information in order to satisfy the requirements of HIPAA.

To answer your question, if I've been diagnosed with certain mental disorders (I'll leave it to the experts to decide which ones would be disallowed), then I would be fine with not being able to purchase a gun. I don't see where employment would figure into it though, unless I was applying for a job that required me to carry a gun.

My job requires me to carry a gun. If your proposal went into effect I would never seek help for any issues that might cause me to lose my right to own and carry a firearm. Police officers and military personnel would never disclose any such problems with a therapist if there is not a right to privacy. And people who own firearms and know something like you are proposing was in effect would never seek help

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Straw man. That has absolutely nothing to do with owning a firearm. Many bipolar individuals have their condition under control and are high functioning, capable people living normal lives

How is it a strawman?

You asserted that putting mental health requirement in place for guns would discourage people (who want to own guns) from seeking mental healthcare out of fear of disqualification.

So I provided a comparison to something else people aren't allowed to do who have certain mental health conditions.

For people who are unfortunate enough to be born with certain conditions, there's certain things they can't do due to the propensity for externalities. It's a harsh reality of life.

It's sad and "nature's cruelty" that a person (who may have a passion for airplanes, and has dreams of flying them) can't become a pilot...and it's no fault of their own. But it's the reality none the less.


As far as having certain conditions under control, can you quantify that a little more?

According to medical literature and studies on people with bipolar disorder:
Even when medicated,
On average, people with bipolar disorder experience 2 episodes per year
15-20% experience "rapid cycling"

 

[BPPLEE]

According to your religion, your god loved her. No one deserves eternal torment.

To rejoice in that is evil.

Grow up, yourself.

Pro 6:16 - There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:

Pro 6:17 - haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,

Pro 6:18 - a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,

Pro 6:19 - a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community. ——-

 

[RocksInMyHead]

My job requires me to carry a gun. If your proposal went into effect I would never seek help for any issues that might cause me to lose my right to own and carry a firearm. Police officers and military personnel would never disclose any such problems with a therapist if there is not a right to privacy. And people who own firearms and know something like you are proposing was in effect would never seek help

You would not have a choice in the matter. Evaluation would be a requirement for owning and/or carrying a gun.

 

[Whyayeman]

I have read the posts about psychiatric reports with interest. Nobody is advocating for putting assault rifles into the hands of a madman. The idea of psychiatric checks, well-intentioned as it is, hardly addresses the real problems. There is no avoiding the issue of the unimaginable number of such weapons in private hands. Nearly all these dreadful attacks are carried out by people armed with assault rifles.

The slaughter will go on until America finds a way of getting rid of them. And countering the sickness that has led to their presence in every town in the country.

 

[Desk trauma]

The slaughter will go on until America finds a way of getting rid of them.

There is zero chance of that happening so I must reiterate an idea I came up with after some other mass shooting of children, can’t even recall which one, posthumous medals for those who died for our gun rights. I would recommend helmets for this delivering them to the families…

 

[Tinker Grey]

Pro 6:16 - There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:

Pro 6:17 - haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,

Pro 6:18 - a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,

Pro 6:19 - a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community. ——-

John 3:16
2 Peter 3:9

Did Jesus die for her or not?