AstraZeneca/Oxford Announce Positive results for their vaccine

[sesquiterpene]

The AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine had two different dosing regimes, one with a low dose followed by a higher dose, and one with two high doses. The low/high doses gave a 90% efficacy, while the high/high dose gave "only" 62%, with a combined average of 70%. This is once again good news.
Covid-19: Oxford University vaccine is highly effective
Oxford AstraZeneca Covid vaccine has up to 90% efficacy, data reveals
Edit: add Astra Zeneca press release:
AZD1222 vaccine met primary efficacy endpoint in preventing COVID-19
Edit: Add link to Derek Lowes blog for nuanced discussionshttps://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/23/oxford-az-vaccine-efficacy-data

 

[Lost4words]

I wont be taking it. Maybe in several years time. Not now. These things usually take years to make sure they are safe, long term.

 

[sesquiterpene]

I wont be taking it. Maybe in several years time. Not now. These things usually take years to make sure they are safe, long term.

These things usually take person-years to make sure they are safe, i.e. (#of people receiving the vaccine) X (average time since receipt of vaccine). This will be measured in millions of person-years soon (perhaps even a month) after rollout for many of these vaccines. Currently we're at perhaps 5000 person-years after these initial trials, indicating any severe side-effects are rare indeed.

I'm pretty saddened that for many of the announcements for positive vaccine results, the first response is from antivaxxers.

 

[Dave G.]

Actually Pfizer's claims for their vaccine is 95% effective.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I wont be taking it. Maybe in several years time. Not now. These things usually take years to make sure they are safe, long term.

Don't be afraid of a vaccine. These are being tested massively. There are Democratic Party partisans who absolutely refuse to take a Trump vaccine. As if these vaccines were political. But since almost everything else about Covid has been political, why not? Because these vaccines are being tested massively even while being tested quickly. If a vaccine gets to market it will be no more risky than any vaccine. Get vaccinated as soon as you can.

But do pay attention to how the vaccine was developed. Some are developed using fetal cell lines obtained through abortions while others do not have such moral complications. So far there are moral choices that are looking good. Ask for one of those and lobby your clinic to stock one of those.

 

[Dave G.]

But do pay attention to how the vaccine was developed. Some are developed using fetal cell lines obtained through abortions while others do not have such moral complications.

That which I quoted above is my main concern. Secondly would be a Gates like vaccine that reportedly uses nano technology for tracking and there is even talk of DNA altering elements in some. So I agree, there is more to think about than running down to the pharmacy and getting injected as soon as possible then having a possible simpler reaction.. At their site they claim in stem cell research to only use adult or animal cells though.

I would consider that Pfizer vaccine if it ticks the right boxes. I don't think a whole lot has been published on that just yet. In my admittedly foolish mind I somehow correlate "Pfizer drugs" as reasonably reliable. They claim to use only adult or animal cells in research though.

 

[sesquiterpene]

Secondly would be a Gates like vaccine that reportedly uses nano technology for tracking

I don't think there's any chance at all of that happening. Just wait and see what are the final safety profiles of these various vaccines .

 

[Valletta]

The AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine had two different dosing regimes, one with a low dose followed by a higher dose, and one with two high doses. The low/high doses gave a 90% efficacy, while the high/high dose gave "only" 62%, with a combined average of 70%. This is once again good news.
Covid-19: Oxford University vaccine is highly effective
Oxford AstraZeneca Covid vaccine has up to 90% efficacy, data reveals
Edit: add Astra Zeneca press release:
AZD1222 vaccine met primary efficacy endpoint in preventing COVID-19

Astra Zeneca, sadly, did not create an ethical vaccine

 

[sesquiterpene]

Astra Zeneca, sadly, did not create an ethical vaccine

This vaccine will not contain a single atom from an aborted fetus. To label them unethical is straining at gnats, redoubled

 

[Monksailor]

I wont be taking it. Maybe in several years time. Not now. These things usually take years to make sure they are safe, long term.

I suspect that side effects and things which "person years" are totally unable to test for (actual longevity of its progression while in an aging body) which could possibly cause all kinds of predispositions or problems in later years and that is why you said "long term." Multiplying SHORT-term results is totally inadequate for this and could be deadly.

 

[sesquiterpene]

I suspect that side effects and things which "person years" are totally unable to test for (actual longevity of its progression while in an aging body) which could possibly cause all kinds of predispositions or problems in later years and that is why you said "long term." Multiplying SHORT-term results is totally inadequate for this and could be deadly.

Can you give examples of vaccine side-effects which only show up years after the injection? Because person-years really is a useful - and perhaps only viable - way of evaluating risk.

 

[Monksailor]

Can you give examples of vaccine side-effects which only show up years after the injection? Because person-years really is a useful - and perhaps only viable - way of evaluating risk.

"Only viable - way" if one is in a hurry and shortness of time is placed as more important than potential side effects; IF one is ONLY looking for a unilateral resolve. We cannot compare this to other vaccines as they DID take more appropriate time to evaluate risks.

One thing us "old farts" and younger ones who have had to or are dealing with life-threatening ailments have learned is that the risk of a drug or surgery or medical treatment is determined in relationship to the prognosis or possible result of what they are treating. If death is a good possibility then even death, at a lower percentage of risk, is allowable for the treatment. Listen carefully to all of the caveats given on drug commercials. ALL of those side effects ARE ALLOWABLE for legal dispensation of the drug.

A LOT of people, I am sure, will not take that new promising arthritis drug with all of its myriad of even fatal side effects and continue with just aspirin and pain in their own right and understandably and so will diabetics continue their daily pill instead of that once a week injection for the same reason.

 

[sesquiterpene]

Listen carefully to all of the caveats given on drug commercials. ALL of those side effects ARE ALLOWABLE for legal dispensation of the drug.

Except that doesn't apply to vaccines, because they are given to otherwise healthy people, and the bar for side-effects is set much higher. The few vaccines that have been withdrawn from the market have been for rare severe side effects - and the way to determine these side effects is indeed based on events per person-year comparisons.

Once again, can you give examples of side-effects of vaccines that only show up after X years? Because in the real world this sort of thing follows some sort of distribution - some people react sooner than others. That's why we use person-years rather than merely count the number of people involved. Even if an effect shows up on average at a date longer than a person's lifetime - say 120 years later, you can still detect it by following many more people for a much shorter length of time. A somewhat off-kilter example that I only dimly recall is a study that showed protection from measles lasted with a half-life of over a thousand years. You don't have to wait a thousand years to determine it.

 

[sesquiterpene]

"Only viable - way" if one is in a hurry and shortness of time is placed as more important than potential side effects; IF one is ONLY looking for a unilateral resolve. We cannot compare this to other vaccines as they DID take more appropriate time to evaluate risks.

What do you mean by unilateral resolve?

We can compare this to other vaccines because person-years of safety is exactly what has always been measured. That's why they actually did miss very rare side effects in the past - because your studies can only tell you that you probably don't have a greater than X chance of side effects - and X has always been an arbitrary number. That's why post marketing studies are essential.

 

[Aaron_Bethlhm]

"Only viable - way" if one is in a hurry and shortness of time is placed as more important than potential side effects; IF one is ONLY looking for a unilateral resolve. We cannot compare this to other vaccines as they DID take more appropriate time to evaluate risks.

Before reading this post, I thought why not compare to the swine flu shot, that caused so much harm as published openly? I thought people would learn from that .... hopefully they did learn as noted below >....

A LOT of people, I am sure, will not take that new promising arthritis drug with all of its myriad of even fatal side effects and continue with just aspirin and pain in their own right and understandably and so will diabetics continue their daily pill instead of that once a week injection for the same reason.

i.e. to avoid the sometimes dangerous side effects, avoid the cause of the side effects.
If a healthy person does nothing, there is zero chance of those potentially dangerous (and always expensive) side effects.
Even a placebo is safer and more effect for most people, it seems...

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I wont be taking it. Maybe in several years time. Not now. These things usually take years to make sure they are safe, long term.

I was the same with the flu-shot. But COVID-19 is deadlier . So it will be harder to wait. I'm guessing like the flu-shot. The most at risk will be offered this vaccine first. When it becomes available.

Don't be afraid of a vaccine. These are being tested massively. There are Democratic Party partisans who absolutely refuse to take a Trump vaccine.

Trump didn't make this vaccination. And Democrats are smart enough to know this. I know plenty of Democrats plan to take this vaccine, When it's available. People are being lied to or believing un educated people, that know nothing about politics. I know plenty of Trump supporters and Conservative Christians that wont take this vaccine or any.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

Actually Pfizer's claims for their vaccine is 95% effective.

At ten times the production cost, and with shipping and storage requirements that are verging on the nightmarish (it needs to be kept at -80', as opposed to the Oxford/AZ vaccine which only needs fridge temperatures).

While it'll work well in places with the infrastructure, it's marginal at best for places without serious lab kit already in place.

 

[sesquiterpene]

At ten times the production cost, and with shipping and storage requirements that are verging on the nightmarish (it needs to be kept at -80', as opposed to the Oxford/AZ vaccine which only needs fridge temperatures).

While I try to sample a wide variety of nightmares while I sleep (last night was actually vampires with chainsaws!) I have never managed one about dry ice, perhaps because I've used it so routinely in my career. I suspect pretty much everyone in the US can get stuff frozen in dry ice shipped to their door. I wonder if dry ice might actually better than refrigerated in less developed countries also. You don't need a refrigerated truck, for instance.

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

While I try to sample a wide variety of nightmares while I sleep (last night was actually vampires with chainsaws!)

Never managed that. Vampires, yes. Chainsaw, yes. But both together? Talk about messy eaters...

 

[sesquiterpene]

Never managed that. Vampires, yes. Chainsaw, yes. But both together? Talk about messy eaters...

It wasn't a wake-up-screaming type of nightmare because I was the one with the chainsaw - it wasn't quite a chainsaw either, more resembling a hand-cranked egg-beater. I actually tend to wake up smiling from dreams like this, marveling at the weirdness of my subconscious imagination.