Assemblies of God Questions

[rocknanchor]

I don't consider cooreographed dancing to be praise to God.In my opinion, praise is like bowing down to the Lord in that it is only effective if done in the spirit and in truth. Singing praise, when not in the spirit, isn't praising god, nor is dancing. Scripture says they that prostrate before me must prostrate before me in spirit. And through experience, I've found that the same applies to praise.
I went to a church affiliated with the AoG, but I've never been in an AoG church.
Shenanigans, indecent? Most churches that do allow dancing have the caveat that praising the Lord in the dance can only be done in the spirit, which is their way of shutting down anyone who dares to try praising the Lord in the dance. The result is that in those churches there are only one or two individuals that ever praise the Lord in the dance, because they are considered acceptable by the others, and because all the do is a little shuffle for a few seconds.
there are tons of Michaels in the church but very few Davids when it comes to praising the Lord in the dance.

Lol, "Choreographed"? Well, if you took the specifics of ten people who danced in praise that held ten different levels of finesse, would you be able to say at what point dance becomes non-praiseworthy?

But you are likely right, the type of dance that is out there I am referring to is indeed all too few. Now if I brought you to a few of those meetings, you wouldn’t be so apt to provide such, but that though hardly noticed and few, dance is on the march!

Dance of this sort exceeds pettiness, whereas liturgical dance is an expression of formal praise in dance.

Where I see dance that comes together and invites is dance that takes a hint from the liturgical dance example; not everyone at will and all over the place as the Lord might impress, but station a dance procession in praise with and unto the Lord. This assoc more easily moves into dance of praise.

Believe me, it is quite catchy, but orderly. But here is the one thing the powers behind the liturgical dance separates from the Pentecostal, they don’t want the flesh to experience the event, they keep the spiritual experience confined to “man's spirit alone, his mind, heart and soul”, whereas in the AOG, they want our whole being to benefit; What to Expect When Visiting an Assemblies of God Church.

 

[jesse67]

Lol, "Choreographed"? Well, if you took the specifics of ten people who danced in praise that held ten different levels of finesse, would you be able to say at what point dance becomes non-praiseworthy?

But you are likely right, the type of dance that is out there I am referring to is indeed all too few. Now if I brought you to a few of those meetings, you wouldn’t be so apt to provide such, but that though hardly noticed and few, dance is on the march!

Dance of this sort exceeds pettiness, whereas liturgical dance is an expression of formal praise in dance.

Where I see dance that comes together and invites is dance that takes a hint from the liturgical dance example; not everyone at will and all over the place as the Lord might impress, but station a dance procession in praise with and unto the Lord. This assoc more easily moves into dance of praise.

Believe me, it is quite catchy, but orderly. But here is the one thing the powers behind the liturgical dance separates from the Pentecostal, they don’t want the flesh to experience the event, they keep the spiritual experience confined to “man's spirit alone, his mind, heart and soul”, whereas in the AOG, they want our whole being to benefit; What to Expect When Visiting an Assemblies of God Church.

obviously our experiences are vastly different, thus we have vastly different conclusions. It appears to me that you have little or no understanding of what being in the spirit means.

fitness has nothing to do with praising the Lord in the dance. opening up to the Lord in the dance is everything. opening up with your body, bending your knees, twisting , turning , leaping, spinning, being as artistic as you can . all of these are ways to open up to the Lord in the dance. If you weight 400 lbs, then your ability to leap is curtailed, but not your will. So a 400 lb. person who opens up with everything in him physically, pleases God and is more open to God in the dance, than a fit person who dances way much better but holds back by not leaping as high as he could or not spinning as well as he could. Plus God directs your steps when you begin opening up to him in the dance with everything in you. I'm an old man and have danced before the lord for over 30 years, when I was younger I had a lot of ability and could praise god in the dance more artistically and forcefully than I can now.. But I open up to the lord with everything in me, even though it's less than it use to be, and I experience the Lord way much more than I did when I was younger becauase I have grown in my ability to open up to the Lord in the dance through trial and effort. The Lord blesses the comparatively less that I do trememdously because of my continual opening up to the Lord in the dance. There's a lot of pressure from other Christians to 'tone it down' when youo praise the Lord in the dance. I didn't let it effect me, I went for the gold. Most haven't been given that ability to no care what people thing about how they dance. Most curtail their liberty in the dance because of social pressure because if they don't they will be ostracized.. The result is they don't experience the Lord in the dance as well as they could have if they had ignored the people and let it rip. just abandon yourself to the lord in the dance, holding nothing back and you will see what I mean. But it has to be done in the church. because the Lord occupies the praises of his saints, and the Lord is in the midst of the congregation.
respectfully, I think you are unknowingly exerating how free AoG churches are in the dance. I believe the vast majority of AoG churches never praise the Lord in the dance, and the very few that do, only allow one or two special persons to do it for 15 to 30 seconds a service. Look what the AoG did to Jimmy Swaggart. that says a lot about them to me. I've seen AoG church servies, they are about as dead as a Baptist church service. no moving of the spirit at all.

 

[rocknanchor]

I don’t get it, for the determination of dance you are seen with,

", , a lot of pressure from other Christians to 'tone it down' when youo praise the Lord in the dance. I didn't let it effect me, I went for the gold."

Then when it comes to any visible determination to also be an ensample for the flock you change it with,

Look what the AoG did to Jimmy Swaggart. that says a lot about them to me. I've seen AoG church servies, they are about as dead as a Baptist church service. no moving of the spirit at all.

“Dead”? Only as dead as we accept it being, if they refuse, that is one thing, but if you read that AOG link you would have seen openness to all forms of expression. Then you can tell them elders the rebuke doesn’t come from you and to pay attention to the AOG statement of beliefs.

BTW, excellent account of your efforts in dance, it appears more apt than I, but you already know why I don’t insist one way or another, for therein I agree – more of Jesus.

And I have no idea where you picked up the idea I was dragging physical aptitude into the mix, okay? Whether it is a simple tapping of the finger to a melody or an intense and joyous procession lasting 15 minutes or more, its just one more case-in-point “do all to the glory of God”.

You just may be the gentleman I ran into in OKC (AOG) whom danced nothing short of miraculous! With eyes fully shut, he would make a big-eight drum-major set up and take notice.

While dancing around the back sanctuary wall in the unthinkable wayyy-backward torso, hands elevated with a forward moving full high-kick at a brisk pace, again, eyes shut and undisturbed, even after the music stopped. What's more incredible is we had been praying for his relief from epileptic seizures. Glory to God!

 

[jesse67]

I don’t get it, for the determination of dance you are seen with,

Then when it comes to any visible determination to also be an ensample for the flock you change it with,

“Dead”? Only as dead as we accept it being, if they refuse, that is one thing, but if you read that AOG link you would have seen openness to all forms of expression.

I read them, I just don't believe that happens. I believe it is an exaggeration. Someone dances in praise to God once a year and they portray it as everyone dancing all the time, is more likely what happened. Iknow how Christians talk about this stuff. a couple of people do a little shuffle of a dance for 15 to 30 seconds, and people report the service as being totally alive with the moving of the spirit. I've seen this sort of thing all too often. Besides I need an hour of more a service praising the Lord in the dance. When I was younger I had even more. sometimes like 8 hours of praising the Lord in the dance, I'd get so tired I couldn't ever raise my legs up. those were the days.

Jimmey Swaggart's church is way more alive than an AoG church, and Jimmy Swaggart's church is largely without the moving of the spirit, there's very little livelness to it. The music is overwhelmingly horrible, and it's one of the best. The preaching is excellent however, at Jimmy's church, for the most part. I can't handle Donny cause he yell's too much when he preaches, but most everyone else there is from good to excellent. I have heard a couple of Donnie's sermons that were very good though, I just have to turn the volume down when he gets the mic. Loren Larsen, in my opinion, is the best they've got. and his preaching is excellent preaching. David Borg, 2nd, If they just had some good singing, and some people praising God in the dance, things would start to move there, but if they did that they'd loose most of their supporters.

Then you can tell them elders the rebuke doesn’t come from you and to pay attention to the AOG statement of beliefs.

BTW, excellent account of your efforts in dance, it appears more apt than I, but you already know why I don’t insist one way or another, for therein I agree – more of Jesus.

you're not going to experience as much of Jesus by tapping your finger as you will by dancing in the spirit with abandonment before the Lord in praise to God. The more of one's body that a person uses to praise god with, the more of god that person will experience. included with that is one's ability. if one has good artistic ability in the dance and holds that back, then God holds back from revealing himself to that person. To slow music, for example, a more artistic form less physically powerful would emerge from God directing one's steps in that sort of scenario. One has to get to the point, through experience, where the Holy Spirit is directing one's steps in the dance. and one doesn't get there by holding back from what the Holy Spirit wants.

And I have no idea where you picked up the idea I was dragging physical aptitude into the mix, okay?

the part where you talked about 10 different physcial abiilities. I sort of skimmed over that part and got the wrong impression of what you were saying.

Whether it is a simple tapping of the finger to a melody or an intense and joyous procession lasting 15 minutes or more, its just one more case-in-point “do all to the glory of God”.

one gets more out of praise to God the more one puts into it. If one doesn't put much into praise, one doesn't get much out of it.

You just may be the gentleman I ran into in OKC (AOG) whom danced nothing short of miraculous! With eyes fully shut, he would make a big-eight drum-major set up and take notice.

that's a special circumstance. That's an example of god overriding a persons will, to a certain extent.

While dancing around the back sanctuary wall in the unthinkable wayyy-backward torso, hands elevated with a forward moving full high-kick at a brisk pace, again, eyes shut and undisturbed, even after the music stopped. What's more incredible is we had been praying for his relief from epileptic seizures. Glory to God!

 

[rocknanchor]

I'm an old man and have danced before the lord for over 30 years, when I was younger I had a lot of ability and could praise god in the dance more artistically and forcefully than I can now.

You just may be the gentleman I ran into in OKC (AOG) whom danced nothing short of miraculous!

His name was Norman, but since you found time to grace us with your avatar, you didn't happen to have an older brother that went to Church in OKC did you?

The resemblance is striking sir who's initials were M.A. Just curious.

 

[jesse67]

His name was Norman, but since you found time to grace us with your avatar, you didn't happen to have an older brother that went to Church in OKC did you?

The resemblance is striking sir who's initials were M.A. Just curious.

no , I only have one brother and his name isn't norman and he lives in the northwest and doesn't look like me. Plus he is UPC and wouldn't dance if his life depended on it. and I have a beard because I wanted to see how grey my beard would be but my wife things I'm so handsome with it she won't let me shave it off.
Hum, does that mean she didn't think I was handsome without my beard?

 

[rocknanchor]

no , I only have one brother and his name isn't norman and he lives in the northwest and doesn't look like me. Plus he is UPC and wouldn't dance if his life depended on it. and I have a beard because I wanted to see how grey my beard would be but my wife things I'm so handsome with it she won't let me shave it off.
Hum, does that mean she didn't think I was handsome without my beard?

Hey. I decline to answer that one chief, ,

 

[rocknanchor]

It appears to me that you have little or no understanding of what being in the spirit means.

My apologies for appearing to hold out. I tend not to answer by the book when someone presents such a question to me.

In the Spirit. I don’t dither the use, “of”, “among” or “in”, it needs simplicity to relay God’s provision for us to understand we need to be with the Spirit. Probably the single greatest misconception is that of losing control if we are to be with the Spirit, when actually it is quite the opposite, which God hands over a generous self-control while we are filled with joy, peace and power.

From there you can attempt to display a feeble exhortation of what it is God is doing or how He is blessing or what gifts He is allotting, but you can only know so much. Really, should my comprehension actually “know” what the Lord does when I am brought to heights that may come?

“Is the axe to boast itself over the one who chops with it?” (Isaiah 10:15)

Please understand, I by no means fault any for “going for the gold”. We eventually find our way in to make that press as sure as strength will permit. But we need to stay mindful of the fuller scope as well so we,

“May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height” (Ephesians 3:18)

But that scope isn’t enough for the vast sum of us, many of us know this; we confine it to the sum of all who are led by ‘the power of His might’, yet quick to forget we falter to identify with those who exp. setback or weakness. We don’t have to look too far to spot a resistance to Christ-like moves of compassion, to uphold the 400-lbs non-dancer or non-tongues talker or weak intercessor, etc.

People instinctively love victory and success, but with a Christian who is washed and is made up with joy and sees Jesus working in his life, that instinct now has more to give towards not only his own excellence, but support for the outcast, lame, weaker and out of the way even adversarial person.

Oh yes, in case you have not yet been baptized into the forum fold - Welcome!!

 

[jesse67]

My apologies for appearing to hold out. I tend not to answer by the book when someone presents such a question to me.

In the Spirit. I don’t dither the use, “of”, “among” or “in”, it needs simplicity to relay God’s provision for us to understand we need to be with the Spirit. Probably the single greatest misconception is that of losing control if we are to be with the Spirit, when actually it is quite the opposite, which God hands over a generous self-control while we are filled with joy, peace and power.

From there you can attempt to display a feeble exhortation of what it is God is doing or how He is blessing or what gifts He is allotting, but you can only know so much. Really, should my comprehension actually “know” what the Lord does when I am brought to heights that may come?

“Is the axe to boast itself over the one who chops with it?” (Isaiah 10:15)

Please understand, I by no means fault any for “going for the gold”. We eventually find our way in to make that press as sure as strength will permit. But we need to stay mindful of the fuller scope as well so we,

“May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height” (Ephesians 3:18)

But that scope isn’t enough for the vast sum of us, many of us know this; we confine it to the sum of all who are led by ‘the power of His might’, yet quick to forget we falter to identify with those who exp. setback or weakness. We don’t have to look too far to spot a resistance to Christ-like moves of compassion, to uphold the 400-lbs non-dancer or non-tongues talker or weak intercessor, etc.

People instinctively love victory and success, but with a Christian who is washed and is made up with joy and sees Jesus working in his life, that instinct now has more to give towards not only his own excellence, but support for the outcast, lame, weaker and out of the way even adversarial person.

Oh yes, in case you have not yet been baptized into the forum fold - Welcome!!

when I first started giving testimonies, they were short and I didn't feel much of an anointing from the Lord, even though I gave them at the direction of the Lord. But now when the Lord directs me to give a testimony, in church, I feel his anointing tremendously to the point that when I look back on my testimony it's like God was speaking through me and sometimes I say things I didn't know. I know when the anointing is on me, but I really can't describe it. Being anointed by God is being in the spirit. That anointing extends beyond testimonies to praise for example. And I would include visions and dreams in that anointing which is being in the spirit. I have been given many dreams and visions from God, some I would describe as extremely anointed others not so extremely anointed but still anointed. One can't do these things in the flesh. If I gave a testimony without the anointing of the Lord on me, it wouldn't be very good. I can't give good testimonies, but with the anointing of the Lord I can and have given tremendous testimonies. Because it is the Lord who speaks in me through the anointing . I know what it feels like but I can't really describe it to you.
You seem to be saying that we need to temper our following of the Lord with what is acceptable to most Christians. That may be true for most Christians, but not me. You see I have been given a gift from God. That gift is that I don't care what people think about me especially when I'm in the spirit. Most people care what other christians think about them and limit themselves accordingly. so for them it wouldn't be advisable to go for the Gold, because they wouldn't be able to handle the rejection, God blessed me that way and he doesn't bless eveyone or most people that way. He blesses them in other ways. When praising the Lord I would often fall to the floor prostrate my self before the Lord, in a back row and kiss the feet of Jesus. This was totally unacceptable to everyone, even though it is scriptural. but I was led of the Lord to do that, and I think that is part of the reason God gave me so many visions and dreams. At first I tried bowing down to the Lord where everyone could see me, but the pastor stopped me so I did it in the back row and he was ok with that since no one could see me bowing down to the Lord, unless they wanted to. I only went as far as was allowed, I would have gone further in that area and other areas if it was allowed. But I did push things to the limit. I just gotta go for the gold.

Maybe I'm such a rebel because my Grandfather was half German and was born in 1862 in a different country, the Confederate States of America.

 

[rocknanchor]

You seem to be saying that we need to temper our following of the Lord with what is acceptable to most Christians. That may be true for most Christians, but not me. You see I have been given a gift from God. That gift is that I don't care what people think about me especially when I'm in the spirit.

Good to hear the application of being anointed. But I see you think the gift is somehow not able to minister to the lesser. Also, you don’t seem to think I know what it is to have the gift if I am worried about what others think.

That isn’t the correct lens to perceive me with. The gift, when in the proximity to God testifies through us has no respect of persons at all and is not quite the concern I raised; not one for respect, but unity. If the gift is to be perfected, it won’t be seen rattling unity, but minister. Yes, I have seen the power of the anointing that ministers to both oversight and congregant; it is glorious!

I think it is fair to say this goes for all the gifts in Church operation, any reader here who cares to confirm or deny are welcome to throw in.

While these are difficult times with enough clutter to offset the most strident layman, it is no match when someone comes under the anointing, do I have a witness?

 

[jesse67]

Good to hear the application of being anointed. But I see you think the gift is somehow not able to minister to the lesser.

No, One person is anointed to preach, another is anointed to be a janitor who cleans the church after everyone has left, another is anointed to greet new comers, another is anointed to preach the gospel to the unsaved, another is anointed to help the needy, I am anointed in ways that others are not and others are anointed in ways that I am not annointed. The hand can't say to the foot it has no need of the foot, it's all one body. The foot is not lesser than the hand, the body needs both.

Also, you don’t seem to think I know what it is to have the gift if I am worried about what others think.

No, I'm saying that everyone is hindered in opening up in praise to God by the people beside them. When everyone is sitting still like a bump on a log, that hinders everyone from getting up from their chair and praising the Lord in the dance. If everyone is praising the Lord in the dance, there is no hinderance, if half of the people are praising the Lord in the dance, then there is more hinderance than when everyone is, and less than when everyone isn't praising the Lord in the dance. I'm saying I believe God gave me a gift of not caring what others think in those situations whereas most everyone else does care , in those situations, what people think. I'm not extrapolating the not caring think to other things like giving testimonies, or preaching, or whatever. Just explaining my experience in the dance.

That isn’t the correct lens to perceive me with. The gift, when in the proximity to God testifies through us has no respect of persons at all and is not quite the concern I raised; not one for respect, but unity. If the gift is to be perfected, it won’t be seen rattling unity, but minister. Yes, I have seen the power of the anointing that ministers to both oversight and congregant; it is glorious!

God gave me dreams and visions, and on a few occaisions compelled me to testify to them and what I learned from them. God spoke through me in the anointing he gave me, and it was a message that was contrary to the preaching ,but not contrary to the doctrine, or past teaching of the church. But because it contradicted the preaching, they prohibited me from saying anything about my visions and dreams. That worked against the unity but for the truth. they were and still are preaching that one can make oneself sin free and perfect by their will power, but their doctrine is and past teaching was that Christ paid it all at calvary. we are made whole in Christ, our righteousness is not our own but is the righteousness of Christ. Anyway God called me out of that church because they were preaching non stop every sermon about perfecting themselves and not about taking it to the crosss and crucifying the flesh at the cross. God showed me that that doctrine is dangerous. It's a doctrine all churches have but most churches bounce back and forth between Jesus paid it all, and make yourself pure through will power. I can't go to church unless I can praise the Lord in the dance. Church is too boring for me to stand unless I can praise the Lord in the dance. I was saved for about15 years before I started praising the Lord in the dance, and I never attended church very much, because church was and is boring to the max for me. so much so that it drives me nuts to go there. But when I praise the lord in the dance everything is wonderful. I went to church all the time for 30 + years while praising the Lord in the dance all that time.

I think it is fair to say this goes for all the gifts in Church operation, any reader here who cares to confirm or deny are welcome to throw in.

While these are difficult times with enough clutter to offset the most strident layman, it is no match when someone comes under the anointing, do I have a witness?

the anointing only works if people are open to receive it. only to those who have ears to hear it. I've seen it when the pulpit was anointed and everyone who got up to the pulpit stepped into that anointing.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't consider cooreographed dancing to be praise to God.

Your loss.

Do you consider playing written music to be "praise?"

 

[PollyJetix]

...and I have a beard because I wanted to see how grey my beard would be but my wife things I'm so handsome with it she won't let me shave it off.

You have a smart wife.

 

[PollyJetix]

Your loss.

Do you consider playing written music to be "praise?"

Thank you for that video! Oh for 1/4 of the energy!

eta/
I have a hard time adjusting to choreographed dance in church.
It's entertaining to watch, but is church supposed to be entertaining?
It seems to me that entertainment is the opposite of worship.

I have noticed that those who have the choreographed dance have very little if any of the "Holy Ghost dance."

Of course, playing written music can be very worshipful... but it can also be simply a performance for the enjoyment of the congregation, and performed only for the praise of man.

What "feels right" to us might not be what God is looking for.
We might define as "worshipful" what God doesn't really call worthy of Himself.
solemnity and silence may be worship... but the Word speaks of worship far more often as very loud and perhaps even cacophonous to our human ears.