Asking Christians: How is killing all the first born sons of egypt moral?

[-57]

To better to explain this to you
I will use the species...birds.

You take Cardinals...and you take Crows.
Both are birds but do not produce the same offspring.

Cardinals act as Cardinals and Crows act as Crows.
The same as the Children of God and the Children of devils.

The only way I see this would be possible depends upon your interpretation of Gen 6.

 

[-57]

They went to be with God. This may have been a different heaven as indicated in Hebrews. Here we are given a list of people who lived by faith such as Noah and told
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance.
In the Gospels, it is called 'Abrahams Bosom'
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

It appears Davids son went to heaven.

 

[whatdoyounkiooo]

I've been here for ten years...trolls....I mean people such as yourself, are disingenuous at best.
Why bother answering you when your only intent is to mock and belittle what you don't understand...and the manner you asked the questions reveal your whole intent regardless of whatever answers I provided.
So why should I bother?

If you heed this advice it might make things easier for you
to accept the things you do not like of others in your life...

Besides...God is no respecter of persons
even if they are on this forum.
Your sins are just as unholy as any troll.

Do you agree?

1 Corinthians 9:22
To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak:
I am made all things to all men, that I might
by all means save some.

 

[whatdoyounkiooo]

God decides who goes to hell, I will not judge.

Then how can judge all babies go to heaven?

 

[whatdoyounkiooo]

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Can you save yourself by declaring with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead?

 

[whatdoyounkiooo]

The only way I see this would be possible depends upon your interpretation of Gen 6.

I have no interpretation of it. It is what it is.

 

[whatdoyounkiooo]

They went to be with God. This may have been a different heaven as indicated in Hebrews. Here we are given a list of people who lived by faith such as Noah and told
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance.
In the Gospels, it is called 'Abrahams Bosom'
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Are you an expert of the things written in the bible?
If not where would you place yourself from novice to expert?

 

[RDKirk]

According to my understanding, God punished them for enslaving jews, and this is one of the punishment. Why did God punishing innocent kids instead of adults who did the enslaving?

Some of the common responses are 1."Morality does not apply to God" If that's the case, how do to condemn jihad in Islam? They are not bound by morality because they believe God tell them to do it. 2."God is not supposed to be a role model" But Jesus is role model, And Jesus is God. 3."Grand plans, killing to the kids are necessary to achieve it" God is omnipotent. Hard to believe avoiding killing innocent kids is impossible for the omnipotent to achieve the grand place. Thank you for reading in advance. I got banned on another forum asking this.


Edit: question answered: God might killed the kids painlessly and sent them to heaven.

Sounds like an issue for Jews to argue, not Christians.

 

[coffee4u]

It appears Davids son went to heaven.

Yes, I thought about using that verse.

2 Samuel 12:23
But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."
David knew he would see his son again when he died himself.

 

[coffee4u]

Then how can judge all babies go to heaven?

I am saying I do not judge over who is going to heaven or not. I was not talking about babies in that's sentence.
1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

 

[Kenny'sID]

Did you trap yourself within the truth?

That was deep...no idea what it means, but deep nonetheless.

 

[coffee4u]

Can you save yourself by declaring with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead?

That is what the Bible says.

 

[coffee4u]

Are you an expert of the things written in the bible?
If not where would you place yourself from novice to expert?

Seriously?
I am not going to rank myself. I believe God's word, I believe we can find our answers in God's word.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[whatdoyounkiooo]

That is what the Bible says.

But what does God say about it?

 

[ViaCrucis]

According to my understanding, God punished them for enslaving jews, and this is one of the punishment. Why did God punishing innocent kids instead of adults who did the enslaving?

Some of the common responses are 1."Morality does not apply to God" If that's the case, how do to condemn jihad in Islam? They are not bound by morality because they believe God tell them to do it. 2."God is not supposed to be a role model" But Jesus is role model, And Jesus is God. 3."Grand plans, killing to the kids are necessary to achieve it" God is omnipotent. Hard to believe avoiding killing innocent kids is impossible for the omnipotent to achieve the grand place. Thank you for reading in advance. I got banned on another forum asking this.


Edit: question answered: God might killed the kids painlessly and sent them to heaven.

I'm not going to pretend like I have a good answer to this particular ethical problem. But it can be helpful to at least understand how this made sense in the eyes of the ancients.

In many ancient societies of the ancient near east familial lineage was one of the most important things, and the firstborn was heir to the family line. The death of the Egyptian firstborns was, for those who wrote and read the story in ancient times, not about the death of innocent children but rather the end of a bloodline.

Something else to keep in mind is that the firstborn isn't necessarily a child, while we cannot exclude children, including very young children; it wasn't targeted at children but rather the firstborn--that means adults.

Now does this address the ethical problem? No, because almost certainly children were included; and even then from our modern perspective this kind of indiscriminate death--children or adults--is pretty horrific.

In the context of the narrative, this plague doesn't come out of no where. It is a product of escalation, the Jews were held as slaves, and God calls Israel His "firstborn son",

"Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, Israel is my firstborn son, and I say to you, “Let my son go that he may serve me.” If you refuse to let him go, behold, I will kill your firstborn son.’” - Exodus 4:22-23

That is, God told Pharaoh that if he refused to free God's firstborn, He would respond in kind by taking away Egypt's firstborn. A kind of final desperate move to finally force Pharaoh's hand.

Now, again, I'm not arguing this answers the ethical issues; but I think it is important to get into the headspace of the text.

Jewish commentaries that I can find point out other points of interest, for example highlighting this passage from Genesis,

"As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful and great darkness fell upon him. Then the Lord said to Abram, 'Know for certain that your offspring will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs and will be servants there, and they will be afflicted for four hundred years. But I will bring judgment on the nation that they serve, and afterward they shall come out with great possessions.'" - Genesis 15:12-14

Rabbinical authorities point out that that the text says God would judge those who enslaved Israel, but that the outcome of that judgment is not mentioned. That is, Israel going into Egypt and being captives there was part of the divine plan for Israel, but how would Egypt treat Israel? In a sense then Moses acts as God's spokesperson to say that this time of enslavement is now over, let Israel free. But Egypt had taken up the task of oppressor with enthusiasm, beating and killing the Israelite, even drowning Israelite children in the Nile river.

Thus, the judgment against Egypt was passed, Egypt was drunk on power and oppression, cruel in her wickedness. Egypt would not let Israel free--God would show forth wonders, but Egypt would refuse,

"But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless compelled by a mighty hand. So I will stretch out my hand and strike Egypt with all the wonders that I will do in it; after that he will let you go." - Exodus 3:19-20

Those wonders begin small, Aaron's staff becomes a serpent in the court of the Pharaoh.

So step after step, time after time, warning after warning Pharaoh--Egypt--had the opportunity but refused.

That, again, is necessary to the story. Does it resolve the ethical questions? Maybe not. But all these things are essential to the story's narrative, and places a frame around the story in how it should be approached.

Again, I don't think I have a very good answer to the ethical questions of the story. There is simply a lot of things in the Bible that are troubling, and I think that's okay. Wrestling with the Bible is part of taking it seriously.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[coffee4u]

But what does God say about it?

Since all scripture is God breathed that is what God says about it.

 

[whatdoyounkiooo]

Since all scripture is God breathed that is what God says about it.

Why do you believe it is scripture just
because someone told you it is scripture?

 

[coffee4u]

Why do you believe it is scripture just
because someone told you it is scripture?

I believe it is scripture because it is scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Either make sense of quit asking obtuse questions.

Which scripture are you claiming isn't scripture?

 

[whatdoyounkiooo]

I believe it is scripture because it is scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Either make sense of quit asking obtuse questions.

Which scripture are you claiming isn't scripture?

You contradicted yourself. I see that you are not aware of it.
And you make a lot of statements that you cannot prove to be the truth...just your own word for it.

Is that obtuse?

And who is Timothy? Have you ever met him?

I know Jesus but I do not know Timothy.
Is Timothy the one that said that women
should never teach men or usurp authority over any man?
And for women to learn in silence from their husbands and to not speak in church?

 

[coffee4u]

You contradicted yourself. I see that you are not aware of it.
And you make a lot of statements that you cannot prove to be the truth...just your own word for it.

Is that obtuse?

And who is Timothy? Have you ever met him?

Where did I contradict myself? I can't help it if you don't understand. Since you keep asking the same questions you obviously don't.

Every statement I make I back up with a Bible verse and if I missed any, point them out and I will add a verse.

Since I don't have a handy time machine to go back to AD 52 I'm afraid not.