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Ash Wednesday/Lent >Pagan origins, against Christ's command.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by simonthezealot, Mar 5, 2014.

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  1. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Catholics believe that that decision is above our pay grade. We leave tit up to God...
     
  2. LarryP2

    LarryP2 Well-Known Member

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    I did not mean to attack Catholics with that question. I asked the question to expose the hypocrisy of bigoted protestant Fundamentalist/Evangelicals. They typically condemn liturgical churches for celebrating lent. (Catholicism is far from being the only church in this group, since protestant churches Lutherans, Anglicans and Presbyterians all celebrate lent. So does Eastern Orthodoxy).

    But the Fundies hypocritically ignore the unsavory and questionable roots of rock n' roll at all costs.
     
  3. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    No worries, brother. I just think that anyone on earth who thinks they know who's going to hell had better look in the mirror at themselves.
     
  4. LarryP2

    LarryP2 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. But it just utterly confounds me how bizarre the usual unthinking attacks on Lent this time of the year are.

    I think the billion plus Catholics and probably the billion plus Anglicans/Easter Orthodox/Presbyterians/Lutherans have suitably divorced themselves, after 1,300 years or so, from any possible remote Pagan influence.
     
  5. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    Really? what's with you guys?
    A number of us have asked you to either show where someone has condemend anyone to hell or quit bearing false witness, and ya'll just keep going and going with this false accusation.
     
  6. tadoflamb

    tadoflamb poster boy

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    It's right there in the title, Simon, Ash Wednesday/Lent-Pagan origins, against Christ's command. You've falsely accused Ash Wednesday and Lent has being of pagan origins, you've declared paganism a false religion, you say Jesus says satan is the author of false religion and that we are violating his command. How is it then, that you can avow all this and still say you're not condemning us? But, it's even worse, it's Jesus who condemns, not you. My God is a god of mercy, not condemnation, so for you to say we're being condemned by our own Lord and Savior for practicing Lent makes you even more implausible. I agree with sonshine, this whole premise of this thread is a flame against those who practice Lent.

    From the testimony of the 'born again' we know that those who are saved by faith will exhibit that faith naturally by their works and those works will be abundant and easy to recognize. In your case, aside from being puffed up by your righteousness, your prideful knowledge of the bible and early Church history and your condemning spirit, you also share in another trait of the Pharisees, the leaven of hypocrisy.

    Sorry to make it personal, but when one's ideas are so novel, esoteric, and exclusive how could it be any other way but personal?
     
  7. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    You apparently can't help but make it personal. Saying a pracice is non-biblical and that it even goes against Christ's command has zero to do with condemning a person.
    You again are bearing false witness against me and accusing me of the sin of pride, arrogance and a judging spirit. I showed how ashes are a display of fasting and against what Christ tells us. How is that anything but love to show a practice that may offend the Lord..Why are you so against allowing a practice to go under scrutiny and examination especially enlight of Christ telling us not to be like the hypocrites when we fast?
     
  8. tadoflamb

    tadoflamb poster boy

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    Isn't there an example in the Sacred Scriptures where something that is good is called evil?

    I've found another pharisaical parallel! :idea:
     
  9. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    No one has ever been called anyone a pagan on this thread. Stop bearing false witness, that is wicked thing.
     
  10. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    What about the false accusation that the imposition of ashes on Ash Wednesday is a pagan practice?
     
  11. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Nobody reads newspapers any more.
    ;)

    That is likely as close to an apostolic practice that we are going to arrive at.

    New Legacy tried to assert that the ashes went back to the time of Gregory, but he could not back that up, or at least missed my post where I asked for that information.
    We know from an English priest circa around 1000AD that this was a practice that he advocated, and it was common enough at this time that there were already superstitious woes befalling those who neglected to do the ash thing. The reasons he gave fell into Biblical reasoning nevertheless. There is no reason to think that he was following the Vikings on this.

    If we could speculate on an earlier date than this, we would be able to maybe move the Lenten practice to the eighth century, if indeed the "Day of Ashes" mentioned in the Gregorian prayer book refers to Ash Wednesday.

    So, Ash Wednesday could be no earlier than 600 when Gregory was pope and standardized the practice in the West, and no later than 1000 when the practice was specifically mentioned. And eighth century origin would not just be splitting the difference, but is where the best evidence points us to.
     
  12. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    This has not been proven otherwise, there is no similarity to sackcloth and pouring ashes over you head compared to putting a cross on your forehead and marching around for the world to see.
    The ash on the forehead is closer to the tripundra sybol of hinduism from the 8th century than it is to the OT pouring of ashes.
     
  13. sonshine234

    sonshine234 Well-Known Member

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    You're the one that is wicked for this whole thread and condemning other Christians as pagans and not Christians and stop acting as if a victim you have accused the believers of false things!
     
  14. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Why worry about what it is "close to" when you know what it is-a reminder that we are but ash, and unto ash we will return?

    And again, I ask, though you fundies seem to ignore it, so what? Why do you condemn how someone practices their faith? Why not focus yourself on how you practice your faith? Especially when what you're talking about is not some fundamental belief of the faith you're criticizing? I say worry about the log in your own eye before worrying about the splinter in someone else's.

    Here's a question for you...If I fashion the Merryl Lynch bull and put it on my coffee table, is there anything inherently wrong with doing that?
     
  15. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

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    The thread's title very clumsily attempts to link Lent with paganism when it says "Ash Wednesday/Lent >Pagan origins, against Christ's command." Your reply is disingenuous.
     
  16. LarryP2

    LarryP2 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, precisely why I will never be caught inside of another Fundy/Evangelical Church, or within 10 miles of a Sola Scriptura proponent if I can help it. I just read an interesting Fundy take on 1 Corinthians 9-17-23. They think it is just fine to have AC/DC Christian Rock during Church services, encourage premarital sex, and all kinds of other things to "get the Gospel" out.

    No thanks. I'll stick with Lent.
     
  17. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist Still striving for health Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    After many reported posts and over 2 mod hats and clean ups, staff decided to keep this thread permanently closed!

    Mod hat off

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2014
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