Ash Wednesday/Lent >Pagan origins, against Christ's command.

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[Jipsah]

Aelfric in the 11th century was the first known record of it, i've been waiting for others to show anything before this..To no avail.

Nope, still baloney.

 

[simonthezealot]

Nope, still baloney.

It is the first the celebration is recorded..
Not sure how you can say baloney and then not offer some form of refutation???

 

[MoreCoffee]

Aelfric in the 11th century was the first known record of it, i've been waiting for others to show anything before this..To no avail.

Nope, still baloney.

It is the first the celebration is recorded..
Not sure how you can say baloney and then not offer some form of refutation???

Standing Up wrote that Athanasius is the earliest recorded Wednesday start for Lent. Being a Greek Speaking Egyptian he would not call it "Ash Wednesday". Of course in 325 AD the English language didn't exist, so "ash" and "Wednesday" were not vocabulary words anywhere at that time, right?

So, what exactly are you complaining about. We already know that Easter does not have pagan origins. Ash Wednesday is arrived at by simple arithmetic; from Ash Wednesday until Eastern Sunday is 46 days, and there are 6 Sundays between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday so 46 - 6 = 40 which is the intended number of days in Lent. Sundays are excluded because every Sunday is a feast day celebrating the Lord's resurrection.

Ash Wednesday is no more pagan than arithmetic is.

 

[simonthezealot]

Standing Up wrote that Athanasius is the earliest recorded Wednesday start for Lent. Being a Greek Speaking Egyptian he would not call it "Ash Wednesday". Of course in 325 AD the English language didn't exist, so "ash" and "Wednesday" were not vocabulary words anywhere at that time, right?

So, what exactly are you complaining about. We already know that Easter does not have pagan origins. Ash Wednesday is arrived at by simple arithmetic; from Ash Wednesday until Eastern Sunday is 46 days, and there are 6 Sundays between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday so 46 - 6 = 40 which is the intended number of days in Lent. Sundays are excluded because every Sunday is a feast day celebrating the Lord's resurrection.

Ash Wednesday is no more pagan than arithmetic is.

I believe it was Gregory the great who incorporated wednesday into the lent season, NOT talking about the day rather the practice and title used as ash wednesday.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Athanasius c350ad was shown to originate (first mention) the Wednesday start of a 40 day period sans Sabbaths to easter sunday. Gregory may have wanted Rome to line up with that.

Still, however, there is no reference to an ASH Wednesday.

I believe it was Gregory the great who incorporated wednesday into the lent season, NOT talking about the day rather the practice and title used as ash wednesday.

"Ash Wednesday" is an English Language title. I do not think that titles prove pagan origins. I think that your entire theses is not credible.

 

[Standing Up]

Standing Up wrote that Athanasius is the earliest recorded Wednesday start for Lent. Being a Greek Speaking Egyptian he would not call it "Ash Wednesday". Of course in 325 AD the English language didn't exist, so "ash" and "Wednesday" were not vocabulary words anywhere at that time, right?

So, what exactly are you complaining about. We already know that Easter does not have pagan origins. Ash Wednesday is arrived at by simple arithmetic; from Ash Wednesday until Eastern Sunday is 46 days, and there are 6 Sundays between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday so 46 - 6 = 40 which is the intended number of days in Lent. Sundays are excluded because every Sunday is a feast day celebrating the Lord's resurrection.

Ash Wednesday is no more pagan than arithmetic is.

Just to clarify:

Believe it was SolomonVII who first made the connection to Athanasius and to Gregory adding a few days to get to 40 days of Lent, sans Sabbath, to Easter Sunday and to the sprinkling of ash at the start. Thus Lent would always start on an Ash Wednesday (as it is called).

I mentioned the synod (antioch) that mentioned a Lenten practice about the same time as Athanasius.

So, the idea of an ash tree connection c1100 appears wrong as a source to the Christian practice.

 

[Standing Up]

bump

In the Middle Ages (at least by the time of the eighth century), those who were about to die were laid on the ground on top of sackcloth sprinkled with ashes. The priest would bless the dying person with holy water, saying, "Remember that thou art dust and to dust thou shalt return." After the sprinkling, the priest asked, "Art thou content with sackcloth and ashes in testimony of thy penance before the Lord in the day of judgment?" To which the dying person replied, "I am content." In all of these examples, the symbolism of mourning, mortality and penance is clear.

Eventually, the use of ashes was adapted to mark the beginning of Lent, the 40-day preparation period (not including Sundays) for Easter. The ritual for the "Day of Ashes" is found in the earliest editions of the Gregorian Sacramentary, which dates at least to the eighth century. About the year 1000, an Anglo-Saxon priest named Aelfric preached: "We read in the books, both in the Old Law and in the New, that the men who repented of their sins bestrewed themselves with ashes and clothed their bodies with sackcloth. Now let us do this little at the beginning of our Lent that we strew ashes upon our heads to signify that we ought to repent of our sins during the Lenten fast." As an aside, Aelfric reinforced his point by then telling of a man who refused to go to Church on Ash Wednesday and receive ashes; the man was killed a few days later in a boar hunt. Since this time, the Church has used ashes to mark the beginning of the penitential season of Lent, when we remember our mortality and mourn for our sins.​

 

[simonthezealot]

Still curious to see a reference to the practice any earlier than Aelfric, the peicing together of Athanasius with the gregorian sacramentary is not much different than my attempt between Adam of Bremen and the other nordic references.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Still curious to see a reference to the practice any earlier than Aelfric, the peicing together of Athanasius with the gregorian sacramentary is not much different than my attempt between Adam of Bremen and the other nordic references.

I'm still curious why it matters so much to you, and why you spend so much time criticizing others' faith practices? Why not focus on your own. In other words, why focus on the splinter in your associate's eye when you have a log in your own?

 

[simonthezealot]

is it wrong to seek out historical truths? why does it matter to you what i find important historically?

 

[sunlover1]

The whole thread is a flame against Christians who observe lent and ash Wednesday. The OP is asserting we are pagans and going to hell

Which post said that those who observe lent are hellbound pagans?
Point me, please.
Because I missed that accusation.

 

[simonthezealot]

The whole thread is a flame against Christians who observe lent and ash Wednesday. The OP is asserting we are pagans and going to hell

Stop bearing false witness,if you can not show I have asserted a single person was a pagan you must withdraw this comment, and you will not be able to because i haven't, if practices can not go under scrutiny then we fail miserably at seeking truth in all situations.

The drive behind this thread is the practice NOT the practicers.
In NO situation have I ever insinuated anyone was pagan.

You should repent and seek forgiveness for bearing false witness.

 

[sunlover1]

is it wrong to seek out historical truths? why does it matter to you what i find important historically?

Seeking truth is noble.

 

[simonthezealot]

Which post said that those who observe lent are hellbound pagans?
Point me, please.
Because I missed that accusation.

There has not been, he is bearing false witness.

 

[Root of Jesse]

is it wrong to seek out historical truths? why does it matter to you what i find important historically?

I don't see where you're doing that, but maybe that's just me. You're opinion, and it is only that, is that Ash Wed/Lent is pagan in origin. Nothing about asking questions. We've answered where it comes from.

 

[simonthezealot]

Lol you've asserted your speculation, as i mentioned the earliest record of the celebration was Aelfric.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Lol you've asserted your speculation, as i mentioned the earliest record of the celebration was Aelfric.

Again, so what? The reception of ashes is a practice, not a doctrine. Like holy water, and others. The Church makes no statement about those who don't participate, even if they're Catholic. It's called devotion.

 

[sonshine234]

Stop bearing false witness,if you can not show I have asserted a single person was a pagan you must withdraw this comment, and you will not be able to because i haven't, if practices can not go under scrutiny then we fail miserably at seeking truth in all situations.

The drive behind this thread is the practice NOT the practicers.
In NO situation have I ever insinuated anyone was pagan.

You should repent and seek forgiveness for bearing false witness.

You should repent for your religious discrimination against those not like you. Discrimination comes from ignorance and pride

 

[sonshine234]

Which post said that those who observe lent are hellbound pagans?
Point me, please.
Because I missed that accusation.

The whole of his post, h e says Ash Wednesday is pagan there by insinuating that those of us who observe such are pagan and hell bound. He should apologetic but he won't and the powers that be do not seem to want to do anything.

The rules say that someone is not suppose to make the others time here uncomfortable. Yet the OP did that with idea that Christians practice paganism. Yes, I take this very personally because I observe orthodox Christianity and I do not like the insinuation that I am pagan by my practices.

The OP never wanted the truth, he just wanted to accuse from his first post.