AS/NT Marriage Woes

[Bulan77]

I suspect my husband has mild Aspergers, mainly related to social skills and a glaring over-emphasis on tangible/sensory stimuli, while having a difficult time (and often avoiding) conceptual/intangible issues.

Anyway, here's the problem: He suspects he has Aspergers too, but only half of the time. Once in a while he's willing to consider being assessed by a professional.

The rest of the time he tells me I'm wrong about his symptoms, or that he just doesn't fit into my family's way of communicating, or that maybe my expectations are the real problem.

Then, when he comes back to realizing he might have Aspergers, he apologizes for his frequent denials, and tells me he sometimes struggles with pride, or a feeling of guilt, or that he's sensitive about labels and doesn't react well to the Aspergers label being applied to him.

I understand that this struggle can be hard, but I find it hard dealing with the constant back and forth, not to mention the communication hurdles that often cause tension between us, or between my husband and others.

Does anyone have advice about any of this?

Also, what other AS/NT marriage woes do you struggle with, and what's your advice about those?

 

[Sabertooth]

Once I discovered that I had AS, I found it to be freeing. It helped me to understand where I was, what I was up against and why I didn't usually fit in. At that point, I was able to begin pursuing more informed coping strategies.

I already had coping strategies, before, but was never quite clear about what I was coping with.

Edit: If he agrees to get an evaluation, make sure he goes to somebody with experience in adult autism. Others tend to over-pathologize the condition, claiming a diagnosis on the schizophrenia spectrum, instead. These kind believe ASDs to be only childhood disorders; that adults will grow out of it, thus cannot have Aspergers in adulthood.

 

[SaltwaterHeart]

or that he's sensitive about labels and doesn't react well to the Aspergers label being applied to him.

I don't have Asperger's, but I can understand this line of thinking really well. I have found that it is easier for me to accept the physical disability that I have had since birth, and that it is harder for me to accept the disabilities/mental illnesses that I have been diagnosed with later in life.

 

[Sabertooth]

But Aspergers (and other ASDs) isn't a psychological problem. It is a neurological difference. It is like being left-handed, but in your brain.

Just like you don't force lefties to be righties, you can't turn Aspies into NTs. Nor will we adapt to NT dynamics intuitively. You must identify both lefties and Aspies, so they can learn to be proficient in whichever case applies.

 

[SaltwaterHeart]

But Aspergers (and other ASDs) isn't a psychological problem. It is a neurological difference. It is like being left-handed, but in your brain.

Just like you don't force lefties to be righties, you can't turn Aspies into NTs. Nor will we adapt to NT dynamics intuitively. You must identify both lefties and Aspies, so they can learn to be proficient in whichever case applies.

Oh, no, that's not what I meant. I know that Autism is a neurological difference, not a mental illness, and I know that you cannot change it. Trying to change people to adapt to NT behaviors is an awful thing to do.

What I was trying to get across is that, maybe, the OP's husband finds it difficult to associate with the label of having Asperger's, because he wasn't given the diagnosis at a very young age. I was trying to show empathy and understanding towards this line of thinking, because, in my case, it has been harder for me to accept that I have PTSD, anxiety, and depression (which are all mental illnesses, but some would classify them as disabilities), because I have developed all of them later in life; as opposed to Cerebral Palsy, which I have had since birth, and I have known that I've had it for all of my life.

I am sorry for the confusion, and I am sorry if I offended you.

 

[Sabertooth]

..., and I am sorry if I offended you.

No offense taken. It is just that embracing Aspergers is more like embracing left-handedness than it is like embracing depression. A lefty needs to know that they don't need to do things the right way. In that sense, labels can be freeing.

Mental illnesses require more aggressive, [intimidating?] medical interventions, where Aspergers (mostly) requires a perspective change (in the Aspie).

 

[dayhiker]

Hi Bulan,
Its not clear to me that your husband will be any better off accepting AS after a PHD gives him an official diagnosis. That might be a good topic to ask him about.
I'm curious about what his is obsessed about? How are those working for or against him? Have you seen any change in his interested over the years? Has his learning helped him in some situations?

Other issues in marriage. One of the big ones is wives often feel like their husband isn't expressing love to them. If they say I love you they come to feel they are just words because they don't feel an emotion behind the words. Part of AS is often a limited expression, a limited ability to express emotion. So I'm wondering how you are feeling your intimacy level is in your marriage?

 

[FergusonTO35]

I have a mold case of AS which has had profound effects on my life. AS can't be "cured" or treated because it is not a disease. It is a set of specific mental skills and deficits, just the way he is made. I have decided to believe that, as Psalm 139 puts it, I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your husband is too, and God has plans for him.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have Asperger's and I did some social-skills training but I think I'm just too old and worn out to really benefit from it. My real issue is I have a flat affect and I just prefer being very straightforward and sometimes, blunt.

For adults, mostly the therapies for Asperger's are worthless, you are better off trying to accept yourself the way you are.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have Asperger's and I did some social-skills training but I think I'm just too old and worn out to really benefit from it. My real issue is I have a flat affect (no facial expression most of the time) and I just prefer being very straightforward and sometimes, blunt.

For adults, mostly the therapies for Asperger's are worthless, you are better off trying to accept yourself the way you are.

 

[scotty85]

I am in the same boat as the OP. I suspect my wife has Asperger's and plenty of close friends (some of which have children with ASD) all agree she has the sure-fire signs.

I've only started to put the pieces together over the last year and with lots of late night discussions where we just go round in circles and finally try and lead into a diagnosis when she admits that she has 'signs' of ASD and done quizzes to back up my concern, but then other times she will flat out deny it and accuse me of 'labelling'.

Earlier in the year I discussed my marriage concerns with my pastor, who passed us onto a marriage counsellor as like most people has no understanding of Asperger's.

We did counselling for a few months with not much improvement in our relationship, and a lot of feel-good techniques which ignore the main issue. I brought up the ASD on multiple occasions with the counsellor who asked my wife directly, which she then puts up her barriers and refuses any such claim. We discussed feelings during our appointments and I had all the "normal" responses eg. hurt, rejected, sad, lonely...but all my wife could come back with each time was 'annoyed' with a blank look on her face like it's completely foreign to feel anything else. We haven't been back in a while because it was just more feel-good techniques with no hard questions being answered.

We've been married almost 10 years and got married quite young so I assumed all these child-like behaviours that were cute and quirky she would grow out of, but I've learnt to cope with her being unaware responsibilities and lack of social interaction. However in recent years God has been calling me into leadership where I just love being a lifegroup leader and running men's small groups, but it just all falls apart when only the men are being cared for and I either have to pick up her share to empathise and care for the women (which in itself could lead to an emotional affair) or else the women in our family groups are left without. Church is a place she goes to, to run the kids church and act busy so she doesn't ever have to talk to anyone and so I am left on my own making friends and loving people. She grew up a Christian and although knows all the right things...living it out is just more 'acting nice and volunteering' than actual following Jesus, mainly because the empathy and understanding isn't there. I became a Christian when I met her, but really only understood what it means in the last 5 years so I'm struggling with all this new information about how your life should be lived and what to set your heart on.

So God's design for marriage and all the books we've read on marriage and men and raising kids etc just doesn't work because there's no books out there about the husband who is the one who does all the caring and wanting to talk heart to heart and lead the family and has the wife who is the emotionless, prideful 'do everything on my own in my own little world' attitude and she can't understand why I am so frustrated with our marriage.

Our parenting is two completely different styles and the kids pick up on it. My wife is the happy, never say no adult and has to have fun all the time (the kids is one of her obsessions), and I'm the one looking to the future and how the behaviours will play out if they're never allowed to be told no. The counsellor, occupational therapists and our son's teacher have all said they need to be told more boundaries and not given so many options as it just comes out in bad behaviour when they don't get what they want. And my wife still does what she always does because the ASD doesn't allow her to listen to advice.

I understand Asperger's can't be cured of fixed, but I just want acknowledgement that there is a problem and that humbling herself to listen to advice on how to go about things where her brain can't understand would go a long way. Currently it would seem she would much prefer me to be the stereotypical distant 'sit on the couch' husband and father rather than the 'let me lead and guide the family' husband.

 

[Sabertooth]

Pride is not an earmark of ASDs. We are susceptible to it as much as anybody else, but it is not a symptom. More commonly, we tend to march to an internal "drumbeat" (so to speak), because we are unable to hear or make sense of the proposed external one. And we experience the full gamut of emotions, but we seem to process them differently than NTs do.

We are not self-centered Narcissists who refuse to recognize others. We are actually impaired in are ability to intuitively recognize others, as much as we really do want to. (Think Data, more than Mr. Spock...)

An expert in Aspergers once pointed out that if you could put a bunch of Aspies in a room together, all of our deficits would disappear (because we do get each other). So, much of this communication gap may be due to a difference in protocol.

I am the Aspie husband of a depressed wife. Before her depression, DW told me that she admired my Aspie qualities. Depression has since robbed her of her emotional flexibility (needed to embrace my thinking outside of the box), so it has become more necessary for me to actively seek to reach out to her.

 

[FireDragon76]

People with Asperger's just think differently and its unrealistic to expect them to see the world the way you do.

I agree about marching to the beat of your own drum. Most people are into following herds, people with Asperger's just have less of an instinct to imitate other people. So we appear eccentric or odd. But sometimes that can make a person very interesting or thoughtful, particularly if they have overcome some of the social disadvantages of Asperger's.

 

[dms1972]

I think an issue sometimes can be with people who aren't qualified suspecting a condition. Basically when something is assessed under proper clinical conditions (not from insights reading wikipedia, or doing a questionaire online) it can be a whole different picture.

Psychiatrists now have to deal with pseudo-symptoms, because people read about something online or someone has said "i think you may have..."

I think that except when discussions are ungirded by Grace, the introspection, and maybe self-accusation it fosters can take ones eyes away from Christ our Righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:30

 

[Sabertooth]

Criticism of "armchair diagnostics" is fair enough, but this forum presumes the validity of ASDs themselves.

Neither introversion nor introspection disqualify one from pursuing the Christian walk. It just looks different than the extroverted model.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Am I really the ONLY Aspie that thinks learning social skills--just a few--might be helpful? Maybe that's because mine is a bit mild.

I've never found eye contact painful, and I'm trying to learn not to interrupt people or go on and on about something they don't care about. I don't always get it EXACTLY right, but I want friends and a social life. It's something I'd feel proud of earning. I know that I don't really have to, but frankly I can't live my whole life alone and with laziness. I don't want to just give up and think that learning to be just a bit less insensitive is evil and goes against my nature.

There are things I can do to manage and treat my AS. I'll still have it, of course, but I won't just surrender to it and think, "Well, I'm just stuck the way I am." I really think every Aspie should try.

As for your husband, Bulan77, try and teach him a few social skills if he's willing to cooperate. Explain that it's for his own benefit, not that you're changing him so that YOU can feel better. Explain that you're trying to mend the communication difficulties you might have with him.

I used to think the way your husband does, and sometimes I still do. But frankly that's just selfish. I'm tired of being selfish like I have been for so long in my life, and if I want to live my life for Christ I have to give up my own me-centric attitude. Because people on the spectrum don't understand regular people very well sometimes, it's hard for "us" to see "you" as people sometimes, or at least people with depth and personality.

But don't give up. Once you get that diagnosis on one of his good days, explain to him a few things:

Here is what having Asperger's WILL affect:
1. Your mannerisms
2. Your job prospects
3. Your interests
4. Your way of approaching tasks/problems
5. How you see the world

And here is what it does NOT affect, unless you let it:
1. Your outlook on life
2. Your attitude
3. Your personality (having Asperger's does not count as a personality, and neither do most of its symptoms)
4. How you, God, and the rest of your family see him

Sometimes it's difficult for me to accept my condition since it's made me life take a certain path that I'm impatient to get out of. But I know that it went this way because that was what God wanted.

People on the spectrum--big surprise!--are fallen, too. We're predisposed to certain sins, and one of them is egoism and selfishness--everyone is wrong accept us and they had better just accept us. Not if we're jerks they don't. Not if they're just trying to live their lives and we come in demanding love without first giving it to them.

Granted, Asperger's is not a "sinful" condition. Everyone is predisposed to certain sins, and not every person on the spectrum sins in the same way.

I think people say you can't change an Aspie because they've given up on changing. God changed me, and I'm confident that He's given me the strength to help change things about myself. And my perfectionism, while it drives me crazy sometimes, helps me be very sensitive to any slight flaws that can be fixed.

Don't give up on your husband. Sometimes living the Christian life requires going against your instincts--I'll bet every Christian has felt this way. Just let him know that you love him and that even though the world is a harsh and scary place sometimes, you're willing to help him get through it.

God bless

 

[Vitari]

Hi Bulan,
Its not clear to me that your husband will be any better off accepting AS after a PHD gives him an official diagnosis. That might be a good topic to ask him about.
I'm curious about what his is obsessed about? How are those working for or against him? Have you seen any change in his interested over the years? Has his learning helped him in some situations?

Other issues in marriage. One of the big ones is wives often feel like their husband isn't expressing love to them. If they say I love you they come to feel they are just words because they don't feel an emotion behind the words. Part of AS is often a limited expression, a limited ability to express emotion. So I'm wondering how you are feeling your intimacy level is in your marriage?

Hi Bulan,
Its not clear to me that your husband will be any better off accepting AS after a PHD gives him an official diagnosis. That might be a good topic to ask him about.
I'm curious about what his is obsessed about? How are those working for or against him? Have you seen any change in his interested over the years? Has his learning helped him in some situations?

Other issues in marriage. One of the big ones is wives often feel like their husband isn't expressing love to them. If they say I love you they come to feel they are just words because they don't feel an emotion behind the words. Part of AS is often a limited expression, a limited ability to express emotion. So I'm wondering how you are feeling your intimacy level is in your marriage?

I am married to an undiagnosed aspie. I have that problem with his telling me over and over "I love you I love you I love you" repeated over and over but no feeling coming over. The gap between us gets wider and wider and I just dont know what to do. He does not seem to want to bridge that gap. Its hard to tell because he would not tell me if he did want to bridge it. I think he thinks I should accept everything without complaint even though its just killing me. I basically wish God would take me home.

 

[Theodiskaz]

Hi. I am the soon to be 55 year old autistic husband to a nt wife of over 35 years. Has he read the love languages book? If he likes analysis, he might enjoy it. Also, try to pique his curiosity by trying out some online tests. And point out that not fitting into the family's way of communicating is actually evidence FOR being on the spectrum, not against as he seems to think.

Is he not interested in psychology? Can you guide him into a new special interest? I have learned what I have because I got into it.

 

[Vitari]

Hi. I am the soon to be 55 year old autistic husband to a nt wife of over 35 years. Has he read the love languages book? If he likes analysis, he might enjoy it. Also, try to pique his curiosity by trying out some online tests. And point out that not fitting into the family's way of communicating is actually evidence FOR being on the spectrum, not against as he seems to think.

Is he not interested in psychology? Can you guide him into a new special interest? I have learned what I have because I got into it.

Hi Theodiskaz
Who wrote the "love languages book" please and I'll look into it

 

[Theodiskaz]

Hi Theodiskaz
Who wrote the "love languages book" please and I'll look into it

His name is Dr. Gary Chapman
He is a graduate of the Moody Bible Institute and holds a Bachelor of Arts (B.A.) and Master of Arts (M.A.) degree in anthropology from Wheaton College and from Wake Forest University. He also received Master of Religious Education (M.R.E.) and Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) degrees from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.[1]

He is also the senior associate pastor at Calvary Baptist Church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.[2] He joined the staff in 1971 and shares the responsibilities of teaching and family care.

He is perhaps best known for his concept of "Five Love Languages", helping people express and receive love as expressed through one of five languages: words of affirmation, quality time, receiving gifts, acts of service, or physical touch.