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Featured LDS As Latter-day Saints use the words saved and salvation, there are at least six different meanings.

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Apr 12, 2018.

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  1. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    So?
     
  2. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Who follows Christ? People who believe false doctrine? People who commit adultery? People who pretend to be Christians?
     
  3. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    You paint him in a lovely, well taught picture.
    But in reality, He was quite a bit more than a "farm boy" wasn't he?????
    Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, was "subjected to approximately thirty criminal actions" during his life.

    While in New York, Smith faced charges of being a "disorderly person" in 1826 and 1830.

    In Ohio, he was arrested multiple times on a variety of charges. On January 12, 1838, a warrant was issued for Smith's arrest on a charge of banking fraud. Rather than submit to arrest, Smith fled the jurisdiction, escaping Ohio into Missouri.

    In Missouri, he was accused of threatening a public official. After his loss in the 1838 Mormon War, Smith was charged with treason against Missouri. Smith was allowed to escape custody and fled the jurisdiction, escaping into Illinois.

    In Illinois, Smith faced arrests in connection to his Missouri charges, including a later indictment on the charge of conspiring to assassinate the former Governor of Missouri (while Smith was residing in Illinois). In 1844, he was charged with inciting a riot in the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor. Smith declared martial law and called out the Nauvoo Legion to enforce it—leading to charges of treason against Illinois.

    While in jail awaiting trial, Smith was killed by a mob.
     
  4. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    That is a Biblical fact and Joseph Smith will not have one single thing to say.
     
  5. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    You mean he wasn't?????
     
  6. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Actually you are incorrect AGAIN!

    Matthew 24:4-5 ............
    “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many shall come claiming to represent Me, saying that I [Jesus] am the Christ, yet shall deceive many.”

    That is, they would proclaim Jesus as the biblical Messiah and would claim to be His representatives—but they actually would be part of a massive religious deception.

    2 Tim. 3:13.............
    “evil men and imposters will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived”.

    So not only do they deceive others. These false teachers themselves are deceived.
     
  7. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Why not respond to comment #169............
    "Another general assertion that you cannot back up with supporting evidence. Why don't YOU clarify and elaborate on what part of CARM's work is "rife with misrepresentations of LDS beliefs"??

    Pick one. Any one. And then tell us WHY it misrepresents lds beliefs."
     
  8. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    That is easy to answer. He has rejected the Bible as the Word of God.

    That sounds really harsh when said and most people who are Christians will immediately run from that kind of response. BUT the Mormons and the Catholics and JW'S have in fact done exactly that.

    The Mormons rejected the Bible as the Word of God and instead accepted the Book of Mormon.

    The Catholic's rejected the Word of God and instead accepted the TRADITIONS of men.

    The JW's rejected the Word of God and paid 2 men to produce the New Word Translation.
     
  9. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    So Protestants are perfect? No they are far from it. That being said, the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is correct.
     
  10. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I am NOT wrong:

    (New Testament | Revelation 11:3 - 13)

    3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
    5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
    8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
     
  11. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    You seem to think these things will not happen, but they will. Many of the prophecies mentioned in the Bible have not come to pass yet either. Paul was also a jail bird so why do you believe him?
     
  12. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    A: Yes. Biblical Christianity teaches that (Hebrews 10:14).

    Instead, LDS doctrine rejects Biblical Christianity in favor of "doing all you can do" which is man-centered justification through the law.

    Biblical Christianity says Jesus’ main teaching was that he came to do everything for our salvation. The essence of being a disciple, therefore, is believing and trusting this. (Hebrews 10:14)
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  13. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints do believe in and use the Bible. I quote from it all of the time. Why didn't you know that there would be prophets after Christ?
     
  14. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    I understand the Bible:

    Dead faith will not save:

    (New Testament | Hebrews 11:6)

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    (New Testament | James 2:14 - 17)

    14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    We will be judged by our works:

    (New Testament | Revelation 20:12 - 13)

    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    Unprofitable servant:

    (New Testament | Matthew 25:30)

    30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Goats:

    (New Testament | Matthew 25:33 - 46)

    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
    36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
    38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
    40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    You don't get to pick and choose what to believe.
     
  15. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a wall-of-text person-- you probably don't want to read a wall of text, and I don't want to write it. So, I'm going to keep this short and focus on the big points. Free free to ask for any elaboration you want. If something appears contradictory to what you've been told about LDS beliefs, I'd encourage you to ask about it rather than slamming up a wall of quotes. Also, if you want any sources supporting what I'm saying here, I'm happy to provide them.
    Actually LDS firmly believe all of these. There are common misconceptions around #1 because LDS believe there is ONE God via unity and not via a shared substance as Athanasian Creed states. CARM's claim for #2 is simply bunk. #3 is a another common misconception which I will elaborate more on in a minute. #4 is also complete bunk. Same with #5.
    Actually LDS firmly believe all these.
    LDS believe Christ has always existed and is no way a "creation" as Creedal Christians believe man is. There are differences between Creedal beliefs about man and LDS beliefs.
    This is a complete straw man argument. No, LDS don't believe in OSAS, Calvinism, or the idea that God denies free will. But none of those are requirement to be Christian. LDS also don't believe that our works save us or the Law of Moses (contrary to CARM's claims). Rather, LDS believe that it's grace that saves-- salvation is gift from God. A person must accept this gift via faith and repentance. Yes, LDS firmly deny any theology that says anyone has a license to sin.
    Actually LDS love the Bible and aren't going to to accept poor translations of it (sorry NWT, you're vetoed off the island). I don't think LDS are alone in desiring correct translations.
    The Biblical definition of a Christian: a disciple of Christ (Acts 11:19-26).

    (Dang, this still turned into a small wall of text!)
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  16. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    I'm aware of such stories. However, still does not equate with a 90 lb book for 3 miles with a limp. Not Real.
     
  17. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Incorrect. Not all 8 witnesses said 30 lbs; some said 40-60. The 90 lbs came from an estimation in another thread that was not disputed.

    Regardless of actual weight, running with a limp for 3 miles and carrying them while being chased through woods by men who want to harm him is highly unlikely.
     
  18. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Jesus Christ and his disciples. Matthew 7:15-23, 1 John 4:1-6, etc.
     
  19. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    And then there's Mark 13:22-23
    For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.
     
  20. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    Correct ... You don't get to pick and choose what to believe.
    You quoted (New Testament | Matthew 25:30 - 46)
    A closer reading teaches:

    1) The sheep\goats are where they are as being already determined prior to any subsequent dialog

    2) The sheep ask:
    "Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?" ~ sheep

    The goats take it even farther in asking:
    "Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?" ~ Goats
    Now which group (sheep or goats) sounds more like "grace after do all you can do"?

    So why are the goats cursed to outer darkness and us sheep living with heavenly Father in exaltation?
     
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