As CHIP expires unrenewed, Congress blows a chance to save healthcare for 9 million children

[Armoured]

Nobody is denied care due to lack of coverage.

Um, Key Facts about the Uninsured Population

And there is always charities, who paid for care long
before governments got into the business.

If charities are so great at providing care, why are there people being denied care?

 

[Audacious]

Every country with socialized healthcare is going broke,
losing doctors, and lowering standards of care. There
isn't enough money for the government to provide top
notch care for everyone. In smaller, richer countries, it
may take longer, but the US is just too bulky for it to work
at all.

What would happen to car insurance if every company was
forced to make policies the same price whether you have a
clean record or DUI's and multiple accidents? When the
government mandates coverage for pre-existing conditions,
that means everyone with healthcare is paying for them.

Finland, Denmark, Sweden, etc are all at budget surpluses. The UK pays 1/3 of what we do for health care. Where are you getting this from?

When the government mandates covering for pre-existing conditions, it means nobody has to have 6 strokes because they can't afford bloodthinners. (Such as my dad.).

You're describing an effect that is literally not happening, and then saying it's going to happen to America even when it hasn't happened anywhere else.

 

[JackRT]

Every country with socialized healthcare is going broke,
losing doctors, and lowering standards of care.

Certainly not true of Canada and I suspect not true for the other western style democracies.

 

[Armoured]

Certainly not true of Canada and I suspect not true for the other western style democracies.

Welcome to 2017, where ideology dictates reality.

 

[pat34lee]

Um, Key Facts about the Uninsured PopulationIf charities are so great at providing care, why are there people being denied care?

Who has been denied care?

 

[pat34lee]

Finland, Denmark, Sweden, etc are all at budget surpluses. The UK pays 1/3 of what we do for health care. Where are you getting this from?

When the government mandates covering for pre-existing conditions, it means nobody has to have 6 strokes because they can't afford bloodthinners. (Such as my dad.).

You're describing an effect that is literally not happening, and then saying it's going to happen to America even when it hasn't happened anywhere else.

Let's try a thought experiment.

The idea is to make healthcare affordable for all.
Easy enough in small countries, if they want to
spend 1/4 or more of their pay on it. Should be
the same in states where the population lives in
huge cities, close to everything.

What about states where the population is under
forty people per square mile? Or Alaska or Maine,
frozen wastelands for a good part of the year?

 

[Armoured]

Let's try a thought experiment.

The idea is to make healthcare affordable for all.
Easy enough in small countries, if they want to
spend 1/4 or more of their pay on it. Should be
the same in states where the population lives in
huge cities, close to everything.

What about states where the population is under
forty people per square mile? Or Alaska or Maine,
frozen wastelands for a good part of the year?

What difference does that make? We have some 9f the liwest population density on the planet, yet we provide affordable health care.

 

[Armoured]

Who has been denied care?

Did ya read the link?

 

[Audacious]

Let's try a thought experiment.

The idea is to make healthcare affordable for all.
Easy enough in small countries, if they want to
spend 1/4 or more of their pay on it. Should be
the same in states where the population lives in
huge cities, close to everything.

What about states where the population is under
forty people per square mile? Or Alaska or Maine,
frozen wastelands for a good part of the year?

Yes, it is more difficult to provide care for people in remote areas; but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have care.

I don't think there's much of a case for it driving up costs enough to make universal health care not work, frankly. We spend more than any country in the world on health care and get worse results. With a universal system, we could spend less and still do better.

 

[pat34lee]

Did ya read the link?

Yes, and the question stands, as it wasn't answered there.

 

[pat34lee]

Yes, it is more difficult to provide care for people in remote areas; but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have care.

I don't think there's much of a case for it driving up costs enough to make universal health care not work, frankly. We spend more than any country in the world on health care and get worse results. With a universal system, we could spend less and still do better.

How do you make healthcare the same for two
hypothetical families:

One lives near a dozen top hospitals and
medical centers.

The other has a doctor and a medical clinic
nearby, but the closest hospital or trauma
center is 50 miles away.

 

[Audacious]

How do you make healthcare the same for two
hypothetical families:

One lives near a dozen top hospitals and
medical centers.

The other has a doctor and a medical clinic
nearby, but the closest hospital or trauma
center is 50 miles away.

I don't see how that is a relevant question unless you think universal health care means having a trauma center every 10 miles.

 

[pat34lee]

I don't see how that is a relevant question unless you think universal health care means having a trauma center every 10 miles.

It's the only relevant thing. How do you maintain costs
whether you have a surplus of doctors and hospitals or
you have none near? Especially when it comes down to
preventative medicine?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Nobody is denied care due to lack of coverage.
And there is always charities, who paid for care long
before governments got into the business.

Sorry, not true.
A lot of people , on the street, and in their homes, but poor, surviving month to month, or week to week, or day to day,
have no access or no ability to find even minimum health care, (mental included),
and the so-called "charities" (some of which did USED to be available, years ago) do not provide for most people, only for some. Many are still out in the cold/ alone/ with no one they know of or can find to call on.

 

[Audacious]

It's the only relevant thing. How do you maintain costs
whether you have a surplus of doctors and hospitals or
you have none near? Especially when it comes down to
preventative medicine?

You just said there was a clinic nearby, in your own example... how is that not providing preventative care?

Also, if you only need a check-up once a year, you can easily drive 50 miles to get it. I had to go that far once a week for a year and a half when I was getting electroconvulsive therapy (granted, I wasn't the one driving).

 

[pat34lee]

You just said there was a clinic nearby, in your own example... how is that not providing preventative care?

Also, if you only need a check-up once a year, you can easily drive 50 miles to get it. I had to go that far once a week for a year and a half when I was getting electroconvulsive therapy (granted, I wasn't the one driving).

And you got the same care as somebody living in NYC,
and for the same price? What if you had a heart attack
or needed daily or weekly dialysis and live 40 miles from
the hospitals? Time/Money/Availability.

 

[pat34lee]

Sorry, not true.
A lot of people , on the street, and in their homes, but poor, surviving month to month, or week to week, or day to day,
have no access or no ability to find even minimum health care, (mental included),
and the so-called "charities" (some of which did USED to be available, years ago) do not provide for most people, only for some. Many are still out in the cold/ alone/ with no one they know of or can find to call on.

What happened to the charities? The government put
them out of business by taking over their work.

 

[Audacious]

And you got the same care as somebody living in NYC,
and for the same price? What if you had a heart attack
or needed daily or weekly dialysis and live 40 miles from
the hospitals? Time/Money/Availability.

I'm confused; are you saying that the problem with a universal health care system is that we can't let people die? Or just that we would need to find ways to give people care when care is difficult to access?

I did a 50 mile drive three times a week for a little while for medical reasons, by the way. That isn't necessarily out of the question for people at all.

What happened to the charities? The government put
them out of business by taking over their work.

This is the dream of most charities. You want them to no longer be necessary, dude.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What happened to the charities? The government put
them out of business by taking over their work.

That is part of it - yet GOD'S PEOPLE (if they can be found anywhere)
still DO RIGHTEOUSNESS and care for those as TORAH says, as JESUS taught and trained and leads ekklesia to DO TORAH.
"What happened to the charities?" They were not all of Yahweh....
and today most all of the ones (organizations) "seen" are serving $$$$.
(including S.Army, R.Cross,etc etc etc )

 

[pat34lee]

I'm confused; are you saying that the problem with a universal health care system is that we can't let people die? Or just that we would need to find ways to give people care when care is difficult to access?

I did a 50 mile drive three times a week for a little while for medical reasons, by the way. That isn't necessarily out of the question for people at all.

This is the dream of most charities. You want them to no longer be necessary, dude.

The point is that there is no such thing as universal, especially
in healthcare. And government is never the answer. Most times,
government is the largest problem.

That includes charities. Government is not equipped for the job.