Army Officer Who Heard Trump’s Ukraine Call Reported Concerns

[A_Thinker]

Army Officer Who Heard Trump’s Ukraine Call Reported Concerns

 

[Go Braves]

PTL for that officer's integrity.

 

[cow451]

Army Officer Who Heard Trump’s Ukraine Call Reported Concerns

Who in the administration will be first to call him a traitor?

 

[cow451]

From the link:
“I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for the U.S. government’s support of Ukraine,”Colonel Vindman said in his statement. “I realized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Burisma it would likely be interpreted as a partisan play which would undoubtedly result in Ukraine losing the bipartisan support it has thus far maintained.”

 

[iluvatar5150]

Who in the administration will be first to call him a traitor?

We seem to be headed that way:
Alexander Vindman: The appalling GOP attacks are next-level - CNNPolitics

 

[Albion]

If this is to be the standard for impeaching a president, no president will ever again be able to speak with another head of state and suggest any course of action to him.

 

[evoeth]

If this is to be the standard for impeaching a president, no president will ever again be able to speak with another head of state and suggest any course of action to him.

Wait, is there some sort of confusion as to how Trump got here?
Don't extort foreign heads of state for personal gain by withholding funds authorized by Congress. It's not that hard!

 

[evoeth]

Who in the administration will be first to call him a traitor?

​

The Appalling Attacks on Alexander Vindman

The White House can’t muster a substantive defense of President Donald Trump’s behavior regarding Ukraine. Democrats more or less gave way to Republican process complaints about impeachment on Monday. So with few other options left, Trump and his allies are returning to the mode that got him elected in the first place: toxic xenophobia.

Monday evening, the opening statement from Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman was released to the press, ahead of his appearance before House investigators today. In another age, Vindman’s statement would be called a smoking gun, though by this stage the facts are clear enough that it adds little to the established record.

Vindman wrote that he heard Ambassador Gordon Sondland, Trump’s European Union envoy, demand that Ukrainians investigate Joe Biden’s family and that he told Sondland this was inappropriate. Moreover, he was listening to Trump’s July 25 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and was disturbed by Trump’s requests.

Read: An oral history of Trump’s bigotry

“I realized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Burisma, it would likely be interpreted as a partisan play which would undoubtedly result in Ukraine losing the bipartisan support it has thus far maintained,” Vindman said. “This would all undermine U.S. national security.”

Vindman’s testimony sidesteps the whistle-blower complaint that kicked off this scandal. Unlike the whistle-blower, whose identity is still unknown, Vindman had firsthand knowledge of the call; he also complained up the chain of command.

Vindman would seem like a difficult witness to attack: a career soldier, an active-duty lieutenant colonel in the Army, a Purple Heart recipient for a wound from an IED in Iraq. Yet imagining that Trump’s allies might struggle to impugn Vindman badly overestimates their scruples.

Shortly after the statement was released, Laura Ingraham covered his story on her Fox News show.

“This is buried in the New York Times piece tonight,” Ingraham said. “He’s a decorated colonel, by the way, in the Iraq War. ‘Because [Colonel Vindman] emigrated from Ukraine along with his family when he was a child and is fluent in Ukrainian and Russian, Ukrainian officials sought advice from him on how to deal with Mr. Giuliani, though they typically communicated in English.’”

She went on: “Here we have a U.S. national-security official who is advising Ukraine while working inside the Ukraine, apparently against the president’s interest, and usually they spoke in English. Isn’t that kid of an interesting angle to this story?”​

 

[Albion]

Wait, is there some sort of confusion as to how Trump got here?
Don't extort foreign heads of state for personal gain by withholding funds authorized by Congress. It's not that hard!

Those hoping for a coup have already defined the "sin" they are attributing to President Trump, and it does not necessarily involve any Quid Pro Quo. That fell flat like all their previous gotchas so they turned to having this be their impeachable "high crime"-- any request or suggestion made to a foreign head of state represents an undue use of pressure by definition since the USA is strong or influential enough to intimidate without any actual hint of that being threatened.

And, what's more, any such contact can easily be made to seem like it was being done in order to enhance the president's chances of being re-elected since any successful agreement could be seen as an accomplishment of the administration sufficient to become part of a re-election campaign.

It's too late to impeach Truman for attending the conference at Potsdam...or Bush Sr or Bush Jr for assembling the international coalitions that took on Iraq, but any future president had better be sequestered for the duration of his time in office or he will be subject to impeachment.

 

[iluvatar5150]

If this is to be the standard for impeaching a president, no president will ever again be able to speak with another head of state and suggest any course of action to him.

Yes, that's it. Somehow, a non-trivial number of people actually involved in government, including both career personnel and political appointees installed into their positions by Trump, managed to overreact in the same way to "normal" diplomatic negotiations and interpret his perfectly acceptable behavior as problematic.

 

[A_Thinker]

-- any request or suggestion made to a foreign head of state represents an undue use of pressure by definition since the USA is strong or influential enough to intimidate without any actual hint of that being threatened

You are purposely omitting the fact that Trump was holding up the assistance the Ukrainians desperately needed to fend off Russia ...

 

[Albion]

You are purposely omitting the fact that Trump was holding up the assistance the Ukrainians desperately needed to fend off Russia ...

Even the Congressional Democrats aren't trying to make that one stick anymore.

 

[KCfromNC]

Even the Congressional Democrats aren't trying to make that one stick anymore.

Weird we have such specific details for an allegedly totally super duper top secret impeachment process.

But I guess there's no reason the various talking points have to agree with each other.

 

[wing2000]

Those hoping for a coup have already defined the "sin" they are attributing to President Trump, and it does not necessarily involve any Quid Pro Quo. That fell flat like all their previous gotchas so they turned to having this be their impeachable "high crime"-- any request or suggestion made to a foreign head of state represents an undue use of pressure by definition since the USA is strong or influential enough to intimidate without any actual hint of that being threatened.

And, what's more, any such contact can easily be made to seem like it was being done in order to enhance the president's chances of being re-elected since any successful agreement could be seen as an accomplishment of the administration sufficient to become part of a re-election campaign.

It's too late to impeach Truman for attending the conference at Potsdam...or Bush Sr or Bush Jr for assembling the international coalitions that took on Iraq, but any future president had better be sequestered for the duration of his time in office or he will be subject to impeachment.

If I need a strawman for Halloween, I'll call you.

 

[wing2000]

"On July 25, 2019, the call occurred. I listened in on the call in the Situation Room with colleagues from the NSC and the office of the Vice President. As the transcript is in the public record, we are all aware of what was said. I was concerned by the call. I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications for 6 the U.S. government’s support of Ukraine. I realized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Burisma, it would likely be interpreted as a partisan play which would undoubtedly result in Ukraine losing the bipartisan support it has thus far maintained. This would all undermine U.S. national security. Following the call, I again reported my concerns to NSC’s lead counsel."

Opening statement:
https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6531807-Vindman-Statement-Final

V.P. Pence and SoS Pompeo were both present for that call....

 

[whatbogsends]

Those hoping for a coup have already defined the "sin" they are attributing to President Trump, and it does not necessarily involve any Quid Pro Quo. That fell flat like all their previous gotchas so they turned to having this be their impeachable "high crime"-- any request or suggestion made to a foreign head of state represents an undue use of pressure by definition since the USA is strong or influential enough to intimidate without any actual hint of that being threatened.

And, what's more, any such contact can easily be made to seem like it was being done in order to enhance the president's chances of being re-elected since any successful agreement could be seen as an accomplishment of the administration sufficient to become part of a re-election campaign.

It's too late to impeach Truman for attending the conference at Potsdam...or Bush Sr or Bush Jr for assembling the international coalitions that took on Iraq, but any future president had better be sequestered for the duration of his time in office or he will be subject to impeachment.

You deliberately misrepresent the criticism. It's not "any request or suggestion made to a foreign head of state", it's a request of a foreign head of state for personal/political gain that is being rightfully condemned.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Shortly after the statement was released, Laura Ingraham covered his story on her Fox News show.

“This is buried in the New York Times piece tonight,” Ingraham said. “He’s a decorated colonel, by the way, in the Iraq War. ‘Because [Colonel Vindman] emigrated from Ukraine along with his family when he was a child and is fluent in Ukrainian and Russian​

Another immigrant taking jobs away from American-speaking Americans.

/sarcasm

 

[FreeinChrist]

In a related article, top Republicans are sticking up for the officer:

'He's a patriot': Republicans defend key impeachment witness from attacks

Republican leaders are stepping up to defend Lt. Colonel Alexander Vindman against vicious attacks from President Donald Trump's allies.

Republicans may quibble with the substance of Vindman’s testimony as they try to protect Trump from the fast-moving impeachment inquiry. But congressional GOP leaders say it’s out of bounds to question Vindman’s patriotism and allegiance to the United States, as some conservative pundits did on Monday night.

Several top Republicans on Tuesday made emphatic statements in support of Vindman, a National Security Council official who heard Trump’s phone call with the Ukrainian president and testified that it was improper for the president to demand an investigation into Joe Biden and represented a threat to U.S. national security.

“That guy’s a Purple Heart. I think it would be a mistake to attack his credibility,” said South Dakota Sen. John Thune, the No. 2 Senate Republican, in an interview. “You can obviously take issue with the substance and there are different interpretations about all that stuff. But I wouldn’t go after him personally. He’s a patriot.”
​

 

[wing2000]

In a related article, top Republicans are sticking up for the officer:

'He's a patriot': Republicans defend key impeachment witness from attacks

Republican leaders are stepping up to defend Lt. Colonel Alexander Vindman against vicious attacks from President Donald Trump's allies.

Republicans may quibble with the substance of Vindman’s testimony as they try to protect Trump from the fast-moving impeachment inquiry. But congressional GOP leaders say it’s out of bounds to question Vindman’s patriotism and allegiance to the United States, as some conservative pundits did on Monday night.

Several top Republicans on Tuesday made emphatic statements in support of Vindman, a National Security Council official who heard Trump’s phone call with the Ukrainian president and testified that it was improper for the president to demand an investigation into Joe Biden and represented a threat to U.S. national security.

“That guy’s a Purple Heart. I think it would be a mistake to attack his credibility,” said South Dakota Sen. John Thune, the No. 2 Senate Republican, in an interview. “You can obviously take issue with the substance and there are different interpretations about all that stuff. But I wouldn’t go after him personally. He’s a patriot.”
​

Is this all the Laura Ingrams of the world have left? Question a NSC member's patriotism?

 

[cow451]

Is this all the Laura Ingrams of the world have left? Question a NSC member's patriotism?

Well, he’s probably been turned by the Biden syndicate.