Armenia claims its fighter jet shot down by Turkish F-16 in Armenian airspace

[essentialsaltes]

Armenia says one of its fighter jets was shot down by a Turkish jet in a major escalation of the conflict over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region.
The Armenian foreign ministry said the pilot of the Soviet-made SU-25 died after being hit by the Turkish F-16 in Armenian air space.
Turkey, which is backing Azerbaijan in the conflict, has denied the claim.
Nearly 100 people, including civilians, have died in three days of fighting over the disputed mountainous region.
No material evidence about the jet has yet been released. Azerbaijan has called for Armenia to provide it.

 

[Nithavela]

An F 16 shooting down a SU 25 is like a heavyweight boxer knocking out a fifth grader.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The problem with growing up as a geography nerd in the 80's is that Gorbachev went and messed everything up. I legit didn't know that Armenia was its own country.

 

[Hank77]

The problem with growing up as a geography nerd in the 80's is that Gorbachev went and messed everything up. I legit didn't know that Armenia was its own country.

Armenia was the first country to adopt Christianity as it's state religion in 301 AD.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Armenia says one of its fighter jets was shot down by a Turkish jet in a major escalation of the conflict over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region.
The Armenian foreign ministry said the pilot of the Soviet-made SU-25 died after being hit by the Turkish F-16 in Armenian air space.
Turkey, which is backing Azerbaijan in the conflict, has denied the claim.
Nearly 100 people, including civilians, have died in three days of fighting over the disputed mountainous region.
No material evidence about the jet has yet been released. Azerbaijan has called for Armenia to provide it.

Time for NATO to pull the leash in on their dog Erdogan. They are committed to continuing the genocide.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Armenia was the first country to adopt Christianity as it's state religion in 301 AD.

I knew they were a thing back in the day. I didn't realize they'd been resurrected.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

This will also add some tensions between Turkey and Russia.

Wonder how soon until the Wagner group shows up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

 

[dzheremi]

It has been its own country again since 1991. Armenia and Azerbaijan/Turkey have been fighting over Nagorno-Karabagh/Artsakh since 1988, though.

If I were in charge of Turkey/Azerbaijan, I'd be very worried. Armenia itself may not be very powerful, but it has some very powerful friends (Russia, Serbia, etc. basically all the Slavic Eastern Orthodox countries).

 

[ArmenianJohn]

For those who don't know what the conflict is about this is a decent summation:
Why Are Armenia and Azerbaijan Heading to War?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Update: Armenia’s ambassador to Moscow Vardan Toganyan said that after a Turkish fighter jet shot down an Armenian plane, Yerevan may head to the Collective Security Treaty Organization, adding that this issue is under discussion.

The Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO; Russian: Организация Договора о Коллективной Безопасности, Organizatsiya Dogovora o Kollektivnoy Bezopasnosti, ODKB) is an intergovernmental military alliance that was signed on 15 May 1992. In 1992, six post-Soviet states belonging to the Commonwealth of Independent States—Russia, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan

Signatories would not be able to join other military alliances or other groups of states,[3] while aggression against one signatory would be perceived as an aggression against all.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

More information - it's clear Turkey is involved and behind Azerbaijan and that they are trying to continue genocide:

Armenians Fear Turkey Is Back to Finish Off the Genocide

Turkey raises stakes in Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict with promise to help retake disputed region

Turkey Sends ISIS Warlord to Azerbaijan to Face Off Against Putin’s Armenian Allies

Turkey Declares An Attack On Azerbaijan Is Attack On Turkey, A US NATO Ally - Tsarizm

 

[dqhall]

Armenia says one of its fighter jets was shot down by a Turkish jet in a major escalation of the conflict over the disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region.
The Armenian foreign ministry said the pilot of the Soviet-made SU-25 died after being hit by the Turkish F-16 in Armenian air space.
Turkey, which is backing Azerbaijan in the conflict, has denied the claim.
Nearly 100 people, including civilians, have died in three days of fighting over the disputed mountainous region.
No material evidence about the jet has yet been released. Azerbaijan has called for Armenia to provide it.

Islamic Turkey is fighting on the side of its neighbor Muslim Azerbajain against Christian Armenia. Years ago the U.S. sold arms to Turkey to counter the threat of U.S.S.R. aggression. Turkey joined NATO, the only Muslim member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

 

[Tanj]

Armenia says one of its fighter jets

So disappointing. The thread title said "its fighter jet". I was really, really hoping that they only had the one.

Like, say, the Bolivian navy...

In related news, the Luxembourg orchestra is bigger than its army.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

More information - it's clear Turkey is involved and behind Azerbaijan and that they are trying to continue genocide

They are not continuing genocide. What happened a century ago within Ottoman Empire hardly reflects to current crisis.

Even the link says Armenians “fear” that they are going to continue.

Turkey is a modern NATO country. They are not going to genocide people if just for it being a bad PR, getting kicked out of NATO and being hammered with sanctions while facing of Russia and it allies.

Cut the fear mongering.

Also Turkey is not declaring that attacking Azerbaijan is an attack on NATO country and invoking article 5 even if some trash publication says so.

It would make bit bigger news worldwide. Also article 5 hardly extends to allies of NATO countries that are not in NATO themselves.

I am sure this is emotionally hard but posting these false claims is not going to make it any better.

 

[Nithavela]

They are not continuing genocide. What happened a century ago within Ottoman Empire hardly reflects to current crisis.

Even the link says Armenians “fear” that they are going to continue.

Turkey is a modern NATO country. They are not going to genocide people if just for it being a bad PR, getting kicked out of NATO and being hammered with sanctions while facing of Russia and it allies.

Cut the fear mongering.

Also Turkey is not declaring that attacking Azerbaijan is an attack on NATO country and invoking article 5 even if some trash publication says so.

It would make bit bigger news worldwide. Also article 5 hardly extends to allies of NATO countries that are not in NATO themselves.

I am sure this is emotionally hard but posting these false claims is not going to make it any better.

I doubt that they'll try any kind of genocide, but they will help their ally try to reclaim that region.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

I doubt that they'll try any kind of genocide, but they will help their ally try to reclaim that region.

Sure. I don’t oppose facts or think they are the good guys but I despise sensationalist headlines that makes “zero sense never fact check if it fits my personal narrative” people, of which there are plenty in these forums, imagine the Turks are now spitting Armenians on spikes then ditching them on unmarked mass grave.

In this day and age it is harder to hide atrocities then it has ever been and consequences are so heavy economically and diplomatically that it doesn’t really make much sense to engage in them if you are someone with something to lose.

Turkey with their central position, young booming population and growing economic and military might has plenty to lose.

They are not going to throw that away to systematically butcher some Armenian farmers in the mountains and to suggest it is just plain idiotic.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

They are not continuing genocide. What happened a century ago within Ottoman Empire hardly reflects to current crisis.

Even the link says Armenians “fear” that they are going to continue.

Turkey is a modern NATO country. They are not going to genocide people if just for it being a bad PR, getting kicked out of NATO and being hammered with sanctions while facing of Russia and it allies.

Cut the fear mongering.

Also Turkey is not declaring that attacking Azerbaijan is an attack on NATO country and invoking article 5 even if some trash publication says so.

It would make bit bigger news worldwide. Also article 5 hardly extends to allies of NATO countries that are not in NATO themselves.

I am sure this is emotionally hard but posting these false claims is not going to make it any better.

Um, thanks for your opinion? I'm sorry you're so angry but it's understandable that you're defensive of the Turks, as you're a Swede. It's fine that you disagree with the articles I've posted and it's fine that you provide your opinion as a rebuttal to them, but do you have any facts that support your opinions? I'm sure it's emotionally hard but posting false claims that are purely your opinion is not going to convince me that the articles are wrong.

That's not to mention that you have absolutely no knowledge of the cultures or peoples involved, nor of the conflict itself.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Sure. I don’t oppose facts or think they are the good guys but I despise sensationalist headlines that makes “zero sense never fact check if it fits my personal narrative” people, of which there are plenty in these forums, imagine the Turks are now spitting Armenians on spikes then ditching them on unmarked mass grave.

In this day and age it is harder to hide atrocities then it has ever been and consequences are so heavy economically and diplomatically that it doesn’t really make much sense to engage in them if you are someone with something to lose.

Turkey with their central position, young booming population and growing economic and military might has plenty to lose.

They are not going to throw that away to systematically butcher some Armenian farmers in the mountains and to suggest it is just plain idiotic.

You should educate yourself on the situation before speaking about it. Read up:
Anti-Armenian sentiment in Azerbaijan - Wikipedia

From the article:
During a 2009 hearing at the United States House of Representatives, Congressman Howard Berman said that he was "deeply concerned by the series of increasingly bellicose statements made over the past year about Nagorno-Karabakh by senior Azerbaijani officials,"[86] such as those by Azerbaijani Defense Minister Safar Abiyev's spokesman in 2004, who stated that "Within the next 25 years there will be no state of Armenia in the South Caucasus. These people ... have no right to live in this region. Modern Armenia was built on historical Azerbaijani lands. I think that in 25–30 years its territory will again come under Azerbaijan's jurisdiction." In 2005, the mayor of Baku, Hajibala Abutalybov during at a meeting with a municipal delegation from Bavaria, Germany stated

Our goal is the complete elimination of Armenians. You, Nazis, already eliminated the Jews in the 1930s and 40s, right? You should be able to understand us."[86]

Victor Krivopuskov, at the time an officer of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR and a member of a peacekeeping mission in Nagorno-Karabakh gives the following assessment of Azerbaijan's current state policy:

The criminals are promoted to the rank of heroes, monuments are erected on their burial places, which comes to prove that the government of Azerbaijan actually continues the policy of genocide which was initiated at the end of the 19th and at the beginning of the 20th centuries."[87]

On 16 July 2020, during the 2020 Armenian–Azerbaijani skirmishes the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry threatened with missile strike on nuclear power plant in Armenia.[88]

If you think that that kind of hatred just goes away then you're grossly mistaken. And if you think that Turkey doesn't share the same sentiment and is 100% behind Azerbaijan (who are also Turks) then you're again grossly mistaken.

I'm sorry, but to suggest that this deep-rooted racist hatred, the very same which drove the genocide of the Armenians and is being brazenly and officially verbalized still today, will just "go away" or will not be the impetus for continuation of genocide is just plain idiotic.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

If you think that that kind of hatred just goes away then you're grossly mistaken. And if you think that Turkey doesn't share the same sentiment and is 100% behind Azerbaijan (who are also Turks) then you're again grossly mistaken.

Sentiments are one thing. Facts are another. Currently there is no genocide and I really doubt we are going to see one either. I stand corrected if one happens.

And the misinformation about Turkey invoking article 5 ?

Another sentiment from some political nobody ?

Those were the only things I even questioned. Feel free to keep us updated if you have any real information.

Loved the ad hominems as well.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Sentiments are one thing. Facts are another. Currently there is no genocide and I really doubt we are going to see one either. I stand corrected if one happens.

You provide only your own sentiment and zero facts so it's contradictory for you to imply you go by facts over sentiment.

And the misinformation about Turkey invoking article 5 ?

What about it?

Another sentiment from some political nobody ?

And your opinions aren't?

Those were the only things I even questioned. Feel free to keep us updated if you have any real information.

Loved the ad hominems as well.

It's all real information I'm presenting - feel free to disprove anything I've presented; you have yet to do so.

And of course you loved the ad homs, they were yours that you used against me and I just recycled them in replying to you.

Come back and talk after you've learned something about the situation - start with the wiki article I gave you to help you out. It provides all its sources so feel free to check them out, although I think if they don't align with your sentiment of genocide-denial then perhaps it won't matter.